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Governments have, and should have, limited resources as well. Where do you think the government obtains its resources.. From private organizations and individ

by syshum 10y ago

Governments have, and should have, limited resources as well. Where do you think the government obtains its resources.. From private organizations and individuals. Thus if the problem is to large for Private Organizations and Individuals to handle collectively, then it is to hard for government as well Housing for Homeless is also a job the government continually fails at and is infact today primary provided for by private organizations using money donated by private organizations and individuals (at least in the US)

GavinMcG 10y ago
> Thus if the problem is to large for Private Organizations and Individuals to handle collectively, then it is to hard for government as well While that's a trivial tautology, in that the government is the mechanism by which a society acts collectively, it's utterly false in the way that you meant it. Government can coordinate resource deployment more effectively than a hodgepodge of private organizations. > Housing for Homeless is also a job the government continually fails at and is infact today primary provided for by private organizations using money donated by private organizations and individuals Fails at how? The (few) governments that are genuinely pursuing housing the homeless seem to be doing a fine job at it. The ones that are trying to get away with lip service to the idea are, well, getting away with it.
- syshum 10y ago
  >>Government can coordinate resource deployment more effectively While it is possible for the government do accomplish this in theory, it fails more often than not. Taking in huge amounts of resources including money and wasting them with inefficient bureaucracy and corruption as you have proven with the rest of your comment
ivan_gammel 10y ago
It's indeed hard, but it's exactly one of the purposes the government exists for. It's their job which they have to do to justify their existence. You cannot blame any private for-profit organization for not taking the government's job and spending its money for something else.
- syshum 10y ago
  I dont believe at any point I blamed any private for-profit organization for anything I was taking issue with the assertions that government is the sole, best or even most competent venue to address a social problem like homelessness. I was taking issue the the assertion that government somehow has more resources than the Collective Individuals and Businesses it derives its resources from
  - ivan_gammel 10y ago
    It is appointed to be the best and most competent venue to address problems like that. Government is the way "collective individuals and businesses" solve the problems that impact the whole society. Replacing it with something else is appointing yet another government, which will require yet another form of legislation (because there have to be the rules), yet another form of taxation and tax collection (because it will need the money) among many other things necessary for successful governing organization.
    - syshum 10y ago
      >>It is appointed to be the best and most competent venue to address problems like that. Government is the way "collective individuals and businesses" solve the problems that impact the whole society. I do not believe that should be the function of government, nor that is was "appointed" to do any such thing. The role of government is protect the negative rights of individuals, government "is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all." -- Frédéric Bastiat
      - ivan_gammel 10y ago
        You used a good quote, but you'd better talk about it's meaning and how exactly it contradicts what I was saying, because "protection of persons, liberties and properties" does include helping people not to die on the street (even for selfish interests of rich public that still makes sense) and it's unclear why you believe otherwise.

by syshum 10y ago

GavinMcG 10y ago

> Thus if the problem is to large for Private Organizations and Individuals to handle collectively, then it is to hard for government as well While that's a trivial tautology, in that the government is the mechanism by which a society acts collectively, it's utterly false in the way that you meant it. Government can coordinate resource deployment more effectively than a hodgepodge of private organizations. > Housing for Homeless is also a job the government continually fails at and is infact today primary provided for by private organizations using money donated by private organizations and individuals Fails at how? The (few) governments that are genuinely pursuing housing the homeless seem to be doing a fine job at it. The ones that are trying to get away with lip service to the idea are, well, getting away with it.

syshum 10y ago
>>Government can coordinate resource deployment more effectively While it is possible for the government do accomplish this in theory, it fails more often than not. Taking in huge amounts of resources including money and wasting them with inefficient bureaucracy and corruption as you have proven with the rest of your comment

ivan_gammel 10y ago

It's indeed hard, but it's exactly one of the purposes the government exists for. It's their job which they have to do to justify their existence. You cannot blame any private for-profit organization for not taking the government's job and spending its money for something else.

syshum 10y ago
I dont believe at any point I blamed any private for-profit organization for anything I was taking issue with the assertions that government is the sole, best or even most competent venue to address a social problem like homelessness. I was taking issue the the assertion that government somehow has more resources than the Collective Individuals and Businesses it derives its resources from
- ivan_gammel 10y ago
  It is appointed to be the best and most competent venue to address problems like that. Government is the way "collective individuals and businesses" solve the problems that impact the whole society. Replacing it with something else is appointing yet another government, which will require yet another form of legislation (because there have to be the rules), yet another form of taxation and tax collection (because it will need the money) among many other things necessary for successful governing organization.
  - syshum 10y ago
    >>It is appointed to be the best and most competent venue to address problems like that. Government is the way "collective individuals and businesses" solve the problems that impact the whole society. I do not believe that should be the function of government, nor that is was "appointed" to do any such thing. The role of government is protect the negative rights of individuals, government "is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all." -- Frédéric Bastiat
    - ivan_gammel 10y ago
      You used a good quote, but you'd better talk about it's meaning and how exactly it contradicts what I was saying, because "protection of persons, liberties and properties" does include helping people not to die on the street (even for selfish interests of rich public that still makes sense) and it's unclear why you believe otherwise.