6 ms·

I was at a law enforcement armorer class with some police officers from various agencies in the Northeast recently. The most impactful thing I heard "People wh

by rdl 10y ago

I was at a law enforcement armorer class with some police officers from various agencies in the Northeast recently. The most impactful thing I heard "People who get narcanned multiple times should just be killed" -- maybe not his literal belief, but the problem seems to be out of control. He had stories of "frequent customers" who kept coming to hospitals/police stations/fire departments to shoot up in the bathrooms, knowing they'd get narcaned if they OD'd. As a King County resident, though, I want this facility nowhere near me. As long as it stays in Seattle or near SeaTac, I'm ok with it. Yes, this is NIMBYism.

randomfool 10y ago
Every day I commute through Seattle greenbelts absolutely littered with needles. You say 'nowhere near me', but it's occurring throughout the city, in the shadows. I don't think some kid is going to get into heroin so they can hang out at the injection point, but if they do get hooked then I hope this buys them some time to escape.
chickenfries 10y ago
So you'd rather someone die on the street in King County then? Garuantee you this facility is not enough to support the needs of the entire area.
aaronbrethorst 10y ago
As a resident of Capitol Hill, I want this right near me. And I want to see another one in Belltown. And another near the waterfront. And another on Aurora. And then another twenty throughout the city. There are junkies shooting up around me every day. They deserve safety and dignity, just like everyone else.
- general_ai 10y ago
  As an adult, you have to make tradeoffs. Given that the supply of money is finite (unless you're Bernie Sanders who believes that money grows on trees), you have to decide whether to spend the money on this, or on, perhaps, kindergartens, schools, public transportation, and the like. TBH, I'd rather the junkies got a different kind of help: forced rehab. Got caught with heroin in your blood? Off to rehab you go. That'd be a good way to spend this money. Facilitating their addiction and making their death spiral "dignified" is a weird take on "help" in my opinion.
  - tomsthumb 10y ago
    Except homeless people dying of aids in county hospitals is expensive.
    - general_ai 10y ago
      Sure would help if they went through rehab to kick the addiction, and not get AIDS then.
      - JshWright 10y ago
        Which is why programs like this are important. Keep them alive and healthy long enough to seek help...
        general_ai 10y ago
        Seek help from _where_?
  - aaronbrethorst 10y ago
    I'm deeply curious about where you expect a city to find the money for "forced rehab" when you're belittling me about making "adult...tradeoffs." Also, where do you think the money for emergency response to drug overdoses comes from, exactly? Do you expect that having a trained professional on hand to administer Naloxone in event of an OD would be more or less expensive than a 911 response? Here's a great editorial from the Seattle Times's op-ed page, which isn't exactly known for being liberal: http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/bring-heroin-injection-sites-indoors-off-the-streets/ http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/bring-heroin-... And a great quote: The [safe injection] model has worked in Vancouver, B.C. One study estimated the Insite facility in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside prevented 83 HIV infections, saving the government at least $17 million. Others document a reduction in overdoses. Lastly, the people who use the site need to be given the chance to get into treatment if they want it. Forced rehab, as you describe it, doesn't seem to have the effect that you'd like it to. I found this study from UCLA which indicates that the evidence in favor of legally mandated rehab programs is murky at best: https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/treat/consensus/anglin.pdf https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/treat/consensus/anglin.pdf Check out the Conclusions and Recommendations section for more. Here's a quote: "There is strong support for the role of internal motivation as a predictor of program retention and positive treatment outcomes."
- taobility 10y ago
  are you also suggesting we shouldn't set up prison for so called criminals? As they also deserve dignity?
  - aaronbrethorst 10y ago
    Are you suggesting that non-violent drug offenders should continue clogging our prisons at the cost of billions of dollars every year from state and local governments? http://cepr.net/documents/publications/incarceration-2010-06.pdf http://cepr.net/documents/publications/incarceration-2010-06...
    - taobility 10y ago
      there is so called drug rehabilitation center, not prison.
techsupporter 10y ago
> As a King County resident, though, I want this facility nowhere near me. As long as it stays in Seattle or near SeaTac, I'm ok with it. Yes, this is NIMBYism. At the risk of being flagged into oblivion, this is why I f-king hate the Eastside. I live and own property in Seattle (so I pay King County taxes just like the rest of you lot) and I'm sick and damn tired of Seattle being the dumping ground for whatever crappy problems Bellevue, Redmond, Shoreline, Kirkland, Sammamish, Issaquah, Duvall, and Fall City don't feel like dealing with. This is on top of the city then getting a reputation as being "dirty" and "crime infested" so that those exact same cities in a "regional partnership" can troll bait in front of the people and businesses of Seattle to induce them to move out of the city, thus taking away the tax base to deal with those dumped problems. I guarantee that there are heroin users near you and those people would greatly benefit from this kind of service. Oh, and there are also homeless, unemployed, and special needs people around you, too. Seattle--and SeaTac--isn't the receptacle for the entire region's problems, especially if we're going to get looked down by you lot from high atop your long noses for receiving them.
- forrestthewoods 10y ago
  If Seattle doesn't want so many addicts maybe we should stop paying for them? Source: Resident of the city of Seattle
  - meowface 10y ago
    You're paying one way or another. If not this, you're going to see increased hospital and law enforcement costs.
    - forrestthewoods 10y ago
      I don't think that's true at all. Seattle has a disproportionately large homeless population when compared to other cities. We have the 3rd highest homeless population but are only the 18th largest city. And we're far from the only city experiencing a housing crisis. So it's a lot more complicated than "you're gonna pay for it one way or another".

by rdl 10y ago

randomfool 10y ago

Every day I commute through Seattle greenbelts absolutely littered with needles. You say 'nowhere near me', but it's occurring throughout the city, in the shadows. I don't think some kid is going to get into heroin so they can hang out at the injection point, but if they do get hooked then I hope this buys them some time to escape.

chickenfries 10y ago

So you'd rather someone die on the street in King County then? Garuantee you this facility is not enough to support the needs of the entire area.

aaronbrethorst 10y ago

As a resident of Capitol Hill, I want this right near me. And I want to see another one in Belltown. And another near the waterfront. And another on Aurora. And then another twenty throughout the city. There are junkies shooting up around me every day. They deserve safety and dignity, just like everyone else.

general_ai 10y ago
As an adult, you have to make tradeoffs. Given that the supply of money is finite (unless you're Bernie Sanders who believes that money grows on trees), you have to decide whether to spend the money on this, or on, perhaps, kindergartens, schools, public transportation, and the like. TBH, I'd rather the junkies got a different kind of help: forced rehab. Got caught with heroin in your blood? Off to rehab you go. That'd be a good way to spend this money. Facilitating their addiction and making their death spiral "dignified" is a weird take on "help" in my opinion.
- tomsthumb 10y ago
  Except homeless people dying of aids in county hospitals is expensive.
  - general_ai 10y ago
    Sure would help if they went through rehab to kick the addiction, and not get AIDS then.
    - JshWright 10y ago
      Which is why programs like this are important. Keep them alive and healthy long enough to seek help...
      - general_ai 10y ago
        Seek help from _where_?
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  I'm deeply curious about where you expect a city to find the money for "forced rehab" when you're belittling me about making "adult...tradeoffs." Also, where do you think the money for emergency response to drug overdoses comes from, exactly? Do you expect that having a trained professional on hand to administer Naloxone in event of an OD would be more or less expensive than a 911 response? Here's a great editorial from the Seattle Times's op-ed page, which isn't exactly known for being liberal: http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/bring-heroin-injection-sites-indoors-off-the-streets/ http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/bring-heroin-... And a great quote: The [safe injection] model has worked in Vancouver, B.C. One study estimated the Insite facility in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside prevented 83 HIV infections, saving the government at least $17 million. Others document a reduction in overdoses. Lastly, the people who use the site need to be given the chance to get into treatment if they want it. Forced rehab, as you describe it, doesn't seem to have the effect that you'd like it to. I found this study from UCLA which indicates that the evidence in favor of legally mandated rehab programs is murky at best: https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/treat/consensus/anglin.pdf https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/treat/consensus/anglin.pdf Check out the Conclusions and Recommendations section for more. Here's a quote: "There is strong support for the role of internal motivation as a predictor of program retention and positive treatment outcomes."
taobility 10y ago
are you also suggesting we shouldn't set up prison for so called criminals? As they also deserve dignity?
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that non-violent drug offenders should continue clogging our prisons at the cost of billions of dollars every year from state and local governments? http://cepr.net/documents/publications/incarceration-2010-06.pdf http://cepr.net/documents/publications/incarceration-2010-06...
  - taobility 10y ago
    there is so called drug rehabilitation center, not prison.

techsupporter 10y ago

> As a King County resident, though, I want this facility nowhere near me. As long as it stays in Seattle or near SeaTac, I'm ok with it. Yes, this is NIMBYism. At the risk of being flagged into oblivion, this is why I f-king hate the Eastside. I live and own property in Seattle (so I pay King County taxes just like the rest of you lot) and I'm sick and damn tired of Seattle being the dumping ground for whatever crappy problems Bellevue, Redmond, Shoreline, Kirkland, Sammamish, Issaquah, Duvall, and Fall City don't feel like dealing with. This is on top of the city then getting a reputation as being "dirty" and "crime infested" so that those exact same cities in a "regional partnership" can troll bait in front of the people and businesses of Seattle to induce them to move out of the city, thus taking away the tax base to deal with those dumped problems. I guarantee that there are heroin users near you and those people would greatly benefit from this kind of service. Oh, and there are also homeless, unemployed, and special needs people around you, too. Seattle--and SeaTac--isn't the receptacle for the entire region's problems, especially if we're going to get looked down by you lot from high atop your long noses for receiving them.

forrestthewoods 10y ago
If Seattle doesn't want so many addicts maybe we should stop paying for them? Source: Resident of the city of Seattle
- meowface 10y ago
  You're paying one way or another. If not this, you're going to see increased hospital and law enforcement costs.
  - forrestthewoods 10y ago
    I don't think that's true at all. Seattle has a disproportionately large homeless population when compared to other cities. We have the 3rd highest homeless population but are only the 18th largest city. And we're far from the only city experiencing a housing crisis. So it's a lot more complicated than "you're gonna pay for it one way or another".