4 ms·

I have yet to see anyone try to justify the choice of countries. I know I live in a bit of a bubble with regard to the particular Trump brand of conservatism, b

I have yet to see anyone try to justify the choice of countries. I know I live in a bit of a bubble with regard to the particular Trump brand of conservatism, but I usually see people arguing the opposite side, even if it's just being quoted by people who agree with me.

sveiss 10y ago
The choice of countries actually dates back to a 2015 Act of Congress restricting access to the Visa Waiver Program to nationals or prior recent visitors of certain countries. These people will have had to apply for a visa instead, and presumably are subject to more stringent checking than most. The list of countries wasn't defined by Congress beyond Iraq and Syria (presumably thanks to those being specifically called out in the name "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria"). It did include provision for the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security to designate additional countries. My gut feeling is that the current administration didn't choose to target the same countries deliberately, but rather chose to incorporate the prior legislation by reference as a defence against legal challenges. The EO wording is that "immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States". The referenced legislation is here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187#a_12 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187#a_12 .
grzm 10y ago
I haven't seen this list referenced by the administration as the rationale, but the list of countries is the same as those included in a question added to the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) application in June 2016, which addresses countries DHS considers at higher risk: Have you traveled to, or been present in, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011? https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/visa-waiver-program-improvement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waive... Please note that I really don't understand the details of the visa process in general or this program in particular, or how DHS arrived at this list of countries. I'm just submitting it as an pre-existing list of countries the DHS has expressed concern about with respect to immigration and visas. Nor do I have any reference that this list was used for the Executive Order. That said, it does seem reasonable to imagine that similar reasoning was used in choosing the countries listed in the Executive Order.
- hyperpape 10y ago
  Thanks, that is very helpful.

sveiss 10y ago

The choice of countries actually dates back to a 2015 Act of Congress restricting access to the Visa Waiver Program to nationals or prior recent visitors of certain countries. These people will have had to apply for a visa instead, and presumably are subject to more stringent checking than most. The list of countries wasn't defined by Congress beyond Iraq and Syria (presumably thanks to those being specifically called out in the name "Islamic State of Iraq and Syria"). It did include provision for the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security to designate additional countries. My gut feeling is that the current administration didn't choose to target the same countries deliberately, but rather chose to incorporate the prior legislation by reference as a defence against legal challenges. The EO wording is that "immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States". The referenced legislation is here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187#a_12 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1187#a_12 .

grzm 10y ago

I haven't seen this list referenced by the administration as the rationale, but the list of countries is the same as those included in a question added to the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) application in June 2016, which addresses countries DHS considers at higher risk: Have you traveled to, or been present in, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011? https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/visa-waiver-program-improvement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waive... Please note that I really don't understand the details of the visa process in general or this program in particular, or how DHS arrived at this list of countries. I'm just submitting it as an pre-existing list of countries the DHS has expressed concern about with respect to immigration and visas. Nor do I have any reference that this list was used for the Executive Order. That said, it does seem reasonable to imagine that similar reasoning was used in choosing the countries listed in the Executive Order.

hyperpape 10y ago
Thanks, that is very helpful.