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How many of those previaled because deportation is politically unpopular in certain areas? There's a lot of places that won't deport you even for murdering some

How many of those previaled because deportation is politically unpopular in certain areas? There's a lot of places that won't deport you even for murdering someone, and indeed our prisons in some states are filled with loads of murderous foreign gang members

tptacek 10y ago
They prevailed in immigration court, where many defendants are forced to represent themselves in complicated legal proceedings without counsel and are as a result deported. I don't think public sympathy with immigrants is the most powerful vector is; I think it's the rule of law that's keeping them in the country. It is numerically, overwhelmingly the case that immigrants to this country aren't a threat to its citizens, and that we have more to fear from lawnmowers and lightning strikes than we do from the people who are being turned away at the borders today, including people coming to the country to work on computational epidemiology and, of course, the spouses of our own citizens.
- nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
  The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. A country is not a charity. The US would be far better off allowing the same number of people in but only those highly educated or those with a lot of money or status. It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. Imagine if instead of 6-8 million illegal immigrants with largely low educations, limited English skills and earning potential, no money, and no status we let in 6 million CEO's, scientists, politicians, and billionaires. It's hard to argue that the current situation is in any way "better"
  - fdsaaf 10y ago
    The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that it is intensely dysgenic. A legal immigration program can select people of some distinction. An uncontrolled illegal flood has the effect of burdening society with another society's least able and most desperate contributors. Those escape religious or political persecution, like the Puritans, some Christian middle east refuges, scientists from 1930s Germany, etc. don't count --- we all know that when we talk about illegal immigration, we're talking about a flood of low-skill economic migrants.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. But neither my beliefs nor those of Donald Trump are material here. The laws of this country forbid the kind of discrimination Trump has enacted, and have forbad it throughout multiple cycles of challenge and pushback.
      - fdsaaf 10y ago
        > I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. Unfortunately, I don't think this administration considers itself bound by laws. That Trump made his contempt for laws and norms clear before his election and won anyway indicates a deep-seated frustration with the current legal and social framework of our country. Part of this frustration comes from the denial, in the face of all evidence and logic, that different groups of people differ in intelligence and temperament. If we deny reality, we're going to make bad policy. Bad policy doesn't solve problems and breeds resentment. I don't like this situation any more than you do. Maybe CRISPR will let us boost everyone's intelligence to some biological maximum. In the meantime, we have to acknowledge reality.
        tptacek 10y ago
        What a foul thing to write here. To write anywhere.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - jaimebuelta 10y ago
    All the studies point that illegal immigrants positively contribute to the receiving country economy. They consume less public resources (they exercise less rights because, well, they're ilegal; as well as being in average young and healthy) and pay most taxes. Most ilegal immigrants want to move towards a legal status and integrate successfully in the country. The "burden" of ilegal immigrants is mostly false.
    - nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
      If illegal immigrants are not a burden why control immigration at all! Let's just let anyone that wants to come here fly on over. This would lead to the country being completely overwhelmed like is happening in Europe. Did Germany stop letting in unlimited refugees because they were helping the country so much?
      - tptacek 10y ago
        I don't know what you're arguing about, but they're detaining and rejecting lawful permanent residents of the country right now. At LAX, ACLU is fighting for --- and is not at all assured of winning --- the admission of an 11 month old American Citizen and his LPR mother, who is two weeks from her citizenship ceremony.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    > The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. Yes, it does. Empirically. > A country is not a charity. Countries are obliged to admit refugees. > It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. "Mean" is an interesting way to put "contrary to domestic and international laws and universal human rights [1]". [1]: See the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 14.

tptacek 10y ago

They prevailed in immigration court, where many defendants are forced to represent themselves in complicated legal proceedings without counsel and are as a result deported. I don't think public sympathy with immigrants is the most powerful vector is; I think it's the rule of law that's keeping them in the country. It is numerically, overwhelmingly the case that immigrants to this country aren't a threat to its citizens, and that we have more to fear from lawnmowers and lightning strikes than we do from the people who are being turned away at the borders today, including people coming to the country to work on computational epidemiology and, of course, the spouses of our own citizens.

nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. A country is not a charity. The US would be far better off allowing the same number of people in but only those highly educated or those with a lot of money or status. It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. Imagine if instead of 6-8 million illegal immigrants with largely low educations, limited English skills and earning potential, no money, and no status we let in 6 million CEO's, scientists, politicians, and billionaires. It's hard to argue that the current situation is in any way "better"
- fdsaaf 10y ago
  The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that it is intensely dysgenic. A legal immigration program can select people of some distinction. An uncontrolled illegal flood has the effect of burdening society with another society's least able and most desperate contributors. Those escape religious or political persecution, like the Puritans, some Christian middle east refuges, scientists from 1930s Germany, etc. don't count --- we all know that when we talk about illegal immigration, we're talking about a flood of low-skill economic migrants.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. But neither my beliefs nor those of Donald Trump are material here. The laws of this country forbid the kind of discrimination Trump has enacted, and have forbad it throughout multiple cycles of challenge and pushback.
    - fdsaaf 10y ago
      > I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. Unfortunately, I don't think this administration considers itself bound by laws. That Trump made his contempt for laws and norms clear before his election and won anyway indicates a deep-seated frustration with the current legal and social framework of our country. Part of this frustration comes from the denial, in the face of all evidence and logic, that different groups of people differ in intelligence and temperament. If we deny reality, we're going to make bad policy. Bad policy doesn't solve problems and breeds resentment. I don't like this situation any more than you do. Maybe CRISPR will let us boost everyone's intelligence to some biological maximum. In the meantime, we have to acknowledge reality.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        What a foul thing to write here. To write anywhere.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- jaimebuelta 10y ago
  All the studies point that illegal immigrants positively contribute to the receiving country economy. They consume less public resources (they exercise less rights because, well, they're ilegal; as well as being in average young and healthy) and pay most taxes. Most ilegal immigrants want to move towards a legal status and integrate successfully in the country. The "burden" of ilegal immigrants is mostly false.
  - nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
    If illegal immigrants are not a burden why control immigration at all! Let's just let anyone that wants to come here fly on over. This would lead to the country being completely overwhelmed like is happening in Europe. Did Germany stop letting in unlimited refugees because they were helping the country so much?
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I don't know what you're arguing about, but they're detaining and rejecting lawful permanent residents of the country right now. At LAX, ACLU is fighting for --- and is not at all assured of winning --- the admission of an 11 month old American Citizen and his LPR mother, who is two weeks from her citizenship ceremony.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  > The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. Yes, it does. Empirically. > A country is not a charity. Countries are obliged to admit refugees. > It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. "Mean" is an interesting way to put "contrary to domestic and international laws and universal human rights [1]". [1]: See the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 14.