4 ms·

>And a very large majority wants no immigration whatsoever from any of those nations affected nor from any of their neighbors save Israel. American immigration

>And a very large majority wants no immigration whatsoever from any of those nations affected nor from any of their neighbors save Israel. American immigration policy towards Israelis is essentially the same as towards anyone else. My (Jewish Israeli) coworker from grad-school wanted to work for Google in Mountain View, but the company couldn't swing him a visa. He stayed at Technion to do a PhD. He now says that he doesn't want to come to the USA with Trump in power. You tell me how a Jewish Israeli computer scientist poses a threat to the United States. And if you think you can, be aware that I'm such a person, on top of being American, so you had better explain to me how I'm a foreign threat to my own home country.

nerfhammer 10y ago
If you're one the best and brightest abroad, why would you trust staking a future in this country anymore? Even if what we're seeing now recedes and fades. Huge damage to our future of this country, beyond just the "temporary"-so-far order.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  I agree, and that's what I have to say to my former (I graduated) coworker. I'm very much inclined to pack bags, ship my possessions, and leave this country myself. If this is how this government behaves one week in, violating human rights and the Constitution already, what can I expect as a minority who was born here? And what about the people I know without second passports? Should a certain friend refuse to visit China with her parents because Trump might decide to ban her (with an American passport!) from returning home over some spat about trade policy? The Department of Homeland Security should have refused this order.
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    A patriotic American can simply renounce a foreign passport.
    - sveme 10y ago
      Some countries do not allow renunciation of their passports.
  - nerfhammer 10y ago
    > Trump might decide to ban her (with an American passport!) Trump can't do that. That would take something way beyond an executive order.
  - ocschwar 10y ago
    Given that Steve Bannon actively wants us in a shooting war with China, I'd say your friend should make up Plans B,C,D and E immediately.
- anarazel 10y ago
  I'm not sure it's that easy. For one, it might not be a lot better where you're from. But more importantly, your presence also can influence (small impact on an individual's level of course) where things are going. There's also the issue that depending on your field there's simply more interesting jobs available locally in the US than in a lot of other countries. I moved to the US ~a year ago, now as a permanent resident. Debating on what to do if things continue going down along the current course.
tehlike 10y ago
I believe Google would be happy to have him in London, Zurich, or Canada. We have solid engineering teams in all of them. However, my view on that is a bit different - if he can avoid, working on his own for his own future instead of a big corp is the way to go. PS: goog emp.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  > I believe Google would be happy to have him in London, Zurich, or Canada. We have solid engineering teams in all of them. As I understood it, he had gone through the interview process and been offered a specific role in Mountain View, for which they then couldn't get the visa. This was back in 2015, so no Trump craziness yet then, just the ordinary bureaucratic stuff. And just to express my butthurt, Israelis don't even get visa-free tourism to the United States.
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    Israelis don't even get visa-free tourism to the United States. Israel harbors a very large and hostile Moslem citizen population.
  - tehlike 10y ago
    The h1b cap is crazy, unfortunately. If he has a phd he could have gone through eb1 route, but i am not an expert on that. That said, it looks like it's past now. Good luck to your friend.
WildUtah 10y ago
I doubt a Jewish Israeli computer scientist poses a threat. But posing a threat isn't the criterion. We don't just take anyone that isn't especially dangerous. America is a nation and only those that further the aims of the existing nation should come. Even then it should be very few of those because America is already full. We can't build enough space to live and infrastructure for the people that are already here. And our natural environment is already threatened by overdevelopment.
- Retra 10y ago
  What do you mean "America is full?" Our population density is 182 of ~250 on a global scale. We have more space, money, and food per person than almost every other country on the planet.
  - WildUtah 10y ago
    The world is ridiculously overfull and Americans didn't make it that way. And the rest of the world is headed for rapid population increases to make it much worse. Americans shouldn't have to suffer for that; we've got a little space left and we should guard it jealously. And just try driving in any major prosperous city at rush hour or riding the subway. Or renting an apartment in SF or NY. We can't expand housing or infrastructure in those cities and we're admitting millions of foreigners overfilling them even further.

nerfhammer 10y ago

If you're one the best and brightest abroad, why would you trust staking a future in this country anymore? Even if what we're seeing now recedes and fades. Huge damage to our future of this country, beyond just the "temporary"-so-far order.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
I agree, and that's what I have to say to my former (I graduated) coworker. I'm very much inclined to pack bags, ship my possessions, and leave this country myself. If this is how this government behaves one week in, violating human rights and the Constitution already, what can I expect as a minority who was born here? And what about the people I know without second passports? Should a certain friend refuse to visit China with her parents because Trump might decide to ban her (with an American passport!) from returning home over some spat about trade policy? The Department of Homeland Security should have refused this order.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  A patriotic American can simply renounce a foreign passport.
  - sveme 10y ago
    Some countries do not allow renunciation of their passports.
- nerfhammer 10y ago
  > Trump might decide to ban her (with an American passport!) Trump can't do that. That would take something way beyond an executive order.
- ocschwar 10y ago
  Given that Steve Bannon actively wants us in a shooting war with China, I'd say your friend should make up Plans B,C,D and E immediately.
anarazel 10y ago
I'm not sure it's that easy. For one, it might not be a lot better where you're from. But more importantly, your presence also can influence (small impact on an individual's level of course) where things are going. There's also the issue that depending on your field there's simply more interesting jobs available locally in the US than in a lot of other countries. I moved to the US ~a year ago, now as a permanent resident. Debating on what to do if things continue going down along the current course.

tehlike 10y ago

I believe Google would be happy to have him in London, Zurich, or Canada. We have solid engineering teams in all of them. However, my view on that is a bit different - if he can avoid, working on his own for his own future instead of a big corp is the way to go. PS: goog emp.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
> I believe Google would be happy to have him in London, Zurich, or Canada. We have solid engineering teams in all of them. As I understood it, he had gone through the interview process and been offered a specific role in Mountain View, for which they then couldn't get the visa. This was back in 2015, so no Trump craziness yet then, just the ordinary bureaucratic stuff. And just to express my butthurt, Israelis don't even get visa-free tourism to the United States.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  Israelis don't even get visa-free tourism to the United States. Israel harbors a very large and hostile Moslem citizen population.
- tehlike 10y ago
  The h1b cap is crazy, unfortunately. If he has a phd he could have gone through eb1 route, but i am not an expert on that. That said, it looks like it's past now. Good luck to your friend.

WildUtah 10y ago

I doubt a Jewish Israeli computer scientist poses a threat. But posing a threat isn't the criterion. We don't just take anyone that isn't especially dangerous. America is a nation and only those that further the aims of the existing nation should come. Even then it should be very few of those because America is already full. We can't build enough space to live and infrastructure for the people that are already here. And our natural environment is already threatened by overdevelopment.

Retra 10y ago
What do you mean "America is full?" Our population density is 182 of ~250 on a global scale. We have more space, money, and food per person than almost every other country on the planet.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  The world is ridiculously overfull and Americans didn't make it that way. And the rest of the world is headed for rapid population increases to make it much worse. Americans shouldn't have to suffer for that; we've got a little space left and we should guard it jealously. And just try driving in any major prosperous city at rush hour or riding the subway. Or renting an apartment in SF or NY. We can't expand housing or infrastructure in those cities and we're admitting millions of foreigners overfilling them even further.