4 ms·

Do you have a green card? Cause I do, and the parent is right. It is not a guarantee of being allowed to enter the US, it can be revoked unilaterally by the g

by dudul 10y ago

Do you have a green card? Cause I do, and the parent is right. It is not a guarantee of being allowed to enter the US, it can be revoked unilaterally by the government. Of course, in practice it's rarely done without cause (e.g. committing a felony), but in the texts it is clearly stated.

tptacek 10y ago
Congress sets the standards under which a green card can be revoked, not the executive branch on the whim of the President or one of his agencies. The rules are in the Immigration and Nationalization Act. It is a false statement to say that the terms green card holders were here under included "can be sent back for any time for no reason". As a green card holder, you are not a US LPR at the discretion of the President or any of his agencies. You have, in effect, a contract with our country. Congress could change the rules, but until they do, you have substantial rights to remain in this country. Even people without LPR status are difficult for the government to remove. Among undocumented immigrants put before immigration court for deportation, over 70% of those with legal representation prevail in court --- unfortunately, in most places in the US, they have no right to counsel, which is why we should all be sending money to immigration law organizations.
- nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
  How many of those previaled because deportation is politically unpopular in certain areas? There's a lot of places that won't deport you even for murdering someone, and indeed our prisons in some states are filled with loads of murderous foreign gang members
  - tptacek 10y ago
    They prevailed in immigration court, where many defendants are forced to represent themselves in complicated legal proceedings without counsel and are as a result deported. I don't think public sympathy with immigrants is the most powerful vector is; I think it's the rule of law that's keeping them in the country. It is numerically, overwhelmingly the case that immigrants to this country aren't a threat to its citizens, and that we have more to fear from lawnmowers and lightning strikes than we do from the people who are being turned away at the borders today, including people coming to the country to work on computational epidemiology and, of course, the spouses of our own citizens.
    - nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
      The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. A country is not a charity. The US would be far better off allowing the same number of people in but only those highly educated or those with a lot of money or status. It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. Imagine if instead of 6-8 million illegal immigrants with largely low educations, limited English skills and earning potential, no money, and no status we let in 6 million CEO's, scientists, politicians, and billionaires. It's hard to argue that the current situation is in any way "better"
      - fdsaaf 10y ago
        The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that it is intensely dysgenic. A legal immigration program can select people of some distinction. An uncontrolled illegal flood has the effect of burdening society with another society's least able and most desperate contributors. Those escape religious or political persecution, like the Puritans, some Christian middle east refuges, scientists from 1930s Germany, etc. don't count --- we all know that when we talk about illegal immigration, we're talking about a flood of low-skill economic migrants.
        tptacek 10y ago
        I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. But neither my beliefs nor those of Donald Trump are material here. The laws of this country forbid the kind of discrimination Trump has enacted, and have forbad it throughout multiple cycles of challenge and pushback.
        fdsaaf 10y ago
        > I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. Unfortunately, I don't think this administration considers itself bound by laws. That Trump made his contempt for laws and norms clear before his election and won anyway indicates a deep-seated frustration with the current legal and social framework of our country. Part of this frustration comes from the denial, in the face of all evidence and logic, that different groups of people differ in intelligence and temperament. If we deny reality, we're going to make bad policy. Bad policy doesn't solve problems and breeds resentment. I don't like this situation any more than you do. Maybe CRISPR will let us boost everyone's intelligence to some biological maximum. In the meantime, we have to acknowledge reality.

by dudul 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago

Congress sets the standards under which a green card can be revoked, not the executive branch on the whim of the President or one of his agencies. The rules are in the Immigration and Nationalization Act. It is a false statement to say that the terms green card holders were here under included "can be sent back for any time for no reason". As a green card holder, you are not a US LPR at the discretion of the President or any of his agencies. You have, in effect, a contract with our country. Congress could change the rules, but until they do, you have substantial rights to remain in this country. Even people without LPR status are difficult for the government to remove. Among undocumented immigrants put before immigration court for deportation, over 70% of those with legal representation prevail in court --- unfortunately, in most places in the US, they have no right to counsel, which is why we should all be sending money to immigration law organizations.

nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
How many of those previaled because deportation is politically unpopular in certain areas? There's a lot of places that won't deport you even for murdering someone, and indeed our prisons in some states are filled with loads of murderous foreign gang members
- tptacek 10y ago
  They prevailed in immigration court, where many defendants are forced to represent themselves in complicated legal proceedings without counsel and are as a result deported. I don't think public sympathy with immigrants is the most powerful vector is; I think it's the rule of law that's keeping them in the country. It is numerically, overwhelmingly the case that immigrants to this country aren't a threat to its citizens, and that we have more to fear from lawnmowers and lightning strikes than we do from the people who are being turned away at the borders today, including people coming to the country to work on computational epidemiology and, of course, the spouses of our own citizens.
  - nrjdhsbsid 10y ago
    The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that is does not benefit the United States. A country is not a charity. The US would be far better off allowing the same number of people in but only those highly educated or those with a lot of money or status. It sounds mean but job of the US govt is not to rescue poor people in third world countries, it's to benefit it's citizens. Imagine if instead of 6-8 million illegal immigrants with largely low educations, limited English skills and earning potential, no money, and no status we let in 6 million CEO's, scientists, politicians, and billionaires. It's hard to argue that the current situation is in any way "better"
    - fdsaaf 10y ago
      The biggest issue with illegal immigration is that it is intensely dysgenic. A legal immigration program can select people of some distinction. An uncontrolled illegal flood has the effect of burdening society with another society's least able and most desperate contributors. Those escape religious or political persecution, like the Puritans, some Christian middle east refuges, scientists from 1930s Germany, etc. don't count --- we all know that when we talk about illegal immigration, we're talking about a flood of low-skill economic migrants.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. But neither my beliefs nor those of Donald Trump are material here. The laws of this country forbid the kind of discrimination Trump has enacted, and have forbad it throughout multiple cycles of challenge and pushback.
        fdsaaf 10y ago
        > I'm not sure what number of undocumented Syrian refugees I would trade for every American citizen who believes that immigration is "dysgenic", but I think it's probably a high number. Unfortunately, I don't think this administration considers itself bound by laws. That Trump made his contempt for laws and norms clear before his election and won anyway indicates a deep-seated frustration with the current legal and social framework of our country. Part of this frustration comes from the denial, in the face of all evidence and logic, that different groups of people differ in intelligence and temperament. If we deny reality, we're going to make bad policy. Bad policy doesn't solve problems and breeds resentment. I don't like this situation any more than you do. Maybe CRISPR will let us boost everyone's intelligence to some biological maximum. In the meantime, we have to acknowledge reality.