4 ms·

Firstly, I'd like to point out that Travis' post was spot on (I abhor Trump's policies, so the more big names speaking out against him, the better). However, i

by tabeth 10y ago

Firstly, I'd like to point out that Travis' post was spot on (I abhor Trump's policies, so the more big names speaking out against him, the better). However, is Travis really the best messenger? Is this just glorified PR or does he actually care? I can't read his mind, so we can only judge from his actions. Let's see what he's done to "stand up for what's right" in regards to his own organization (this isn't exhaustive, at all): - Uber employees order fake rides to sink competitor [1] - Blaming the media for suggesting Uber is liable [2] - Blind passengers denied rides [3] - Uber executives looking into critics' personal lives [4] ---- You may think those things are irrelevant, but one should practice what they preach, especially when they have a post titled: "Standing up for what's right." My examples, by the way, only scratch the surface to Uber's own shady practices. [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-against-nyc-competition-cam-1508280668 http://valleywag.gawker.com/ubers-dirty-trick-campaign-again... [2] https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-most-awful-things-travis-kalanick-said-in-his-gq-profile/ https://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-m... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/10/uber-sued-for-allegedly-refusing-rides-to-the-blind-and-putting-a-dog-in-the-trunk/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/1... [4] http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-digging-up-dirt-on-journalists#.agOZK3GPR http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/uber-executive-suggests-dig...

davidw 10y ago
> really the best messenger The more messengers, the better. This is authoritarianism, pure and simple. It's not remotely about security or anything else.
- tabeth 10y ago
  I disagree. Would you be saying this if Pence wrote this post? I would imagine you'd call him out on his hypocrisy. More messengers are good only if they actually believe what they're saying.
  - davidw 10y ago
    You mean like this? https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433 https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433
    - tabeth 10y ago
      Yup, that's exactly what I was referring to. I'm not sure what that has to do with "more messengers, the better", though.
      - davidw 10y ago
        If Pence wrote a post right now attacking this authoritarian move and explaining what he was going to do about it, I'd be very happy, actually.
  - Sivart13 10y ago
    I would be perfectly happy for Pence to denounce this executive order, whatever he really believes. Somehow I doubt that's forthcoming.
  - skyfaller 10y ago
    I'd have to say that it is situational. What we're really discussing here is the old proposition that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". If Pence denounced Trump's action and detailed what he was going to do about it, I would suspect his motives, and be concerned that he does not mean what he says, but this is a terrible policy that needs to stopped ASAP, and it's likely I would welcome Pence's help in this circumstance (while stating my reservations about him as a person and political actor). However, in many situations "the enemy of my enemy is my enemy still", and I might not consider the benefit of accepting Pence's help worth the cost of working with him.
  - wfo 10y ago
    Yes? Of course? I'd be ecstatic that he's showing some backbone and thinks it's important to do the right thing? That someone is willing to check Trump's power when he does horrible, horrible things? If Pence wants to be right then I'll all for him being right even if it's only one time about only one thing -- that's better than nothing.
nerfhammer 10y ago
> However, is Travis really the best messenger? One, should or would Kalanick say to himself, well, maybe I'm not the BEST messenger... so I'll just keep totally quiet on this one... Two, if he just kept quiet, does it seem possible that people would then complain that he's bad for keeping quiet?
rz2k 10y ago
A lot of people think that Trump does not sincerely believe the things that he is saying, and furthermore that he not the best messenger. However, at his most incoherent there are people who vehemently agree with anything he says because they think he is a "winner". I'd guess that anyone who already thinks this is an outrageously bad decision isn't going to change their mind because they dislike this messenger. As for the others, they seem unpredictable when it comes to what works or doesn't work with them. Maybe they think he's implicitly credible as a rich guy who isn't sentimental and doesn't make an effort to be portrayed as a do-gooder.
draw_down 10y ago
> is Travis really the best messenger? There is a saying among photographers: "The best camera is the one you have with you."
wfo 10y ago
So what? One good thing that's come from the Trump presidency is unity. Me and my more conservative colleagues and friends were always cordial and have had healthy debates but we are now in vehement agreement -- against Trump. I'll give you that Travis is a total scumbag. Maybe he is. Maybe he doesn't care about this issue. I don't care. He's right this time, about this issue, and when we're talking about it, that's good enough for me. Trump's policies will be devastating and he will attempt to loot, pillage, and destroy every part of the country. It will take our country decades to recover from the damage he does, if it ever recovers. If the coalition that forms up against him is slightly different for every issue and creates some unlikely bedfellows, well so be it. We need all the help we can get. The office of the president is unbelievably powerful -- something some of us have been very concerned about since GWB and on through Obama. In fact anti-Trump republicans/businessmen/'generally all around bad guys' mean a whole lot more right now than the guaranteed liberal coalition against him.
- tptacek 10y ago
  You're not the only person I've heard say that recently. The question is: can we build organizational momentum to keep this up for the long haul, and can we make it through however long a Trump/Bannon administration will be without grave harm to the country? I'm hopeful, but we have to do more than appreciate unity and engagement: we have to build on it, and reinforce it. So as not to repeat myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304

by tabeth 10y ago

davidw 10y ago

> really the best messenger The more messengers, the better. This is authoritarianism, pure and simple. It's not remotely about security or anything else.

tabeth 10y ago
I disagree. Would you be saying this if Pence wrote this post? I would imagine you'd call him out on his hypocrisy. More messengers are good only if they actually believe what they're saying.
- davidw 10y ago
  You mean like this? https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433 https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433
  - tabeth 10y ago
    Yup, that's exactly what I was referring to. I'm not sure what that has to do with "more messengers, the better", though.
    - davidw 10y ago
      If Pence wrote a post right now attacking this authoritarian move and explaining what he was going to do about it, I'd be very happy, actually.
- Sivart13 10y ago
  I would be perfectly happy for Pence to denounce this executive order, whatever he really believes. Somehow I doubt that's forthcoming.
- skyfaller 10y ago
  I'd have to say that it is situational. What we're really discussing here is the old proposition that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". If Pence denounced Trump's action and detailed what he was going to do about it, I would suspect his motives, and be concerned that he does not mean what he says, but this is a terrible policy that needs to stopped ASAP, and it's likely I would welcome Pence's help in this circumstance (while stating my reservations about him as a person and political actor). However, in many situations "the enemy of my enemy is my enemy still", and I might not consider the benefit of accepting Pence's help worth the cost of working with him.
- wfo 10y ago
  Yes? Of course? I'd be ecstatic that he's showing some backbone and thinks it's important to do the right thing? That someone is willing to check Trump's power when he does horrible, horrible things? If Pence wants to be right then I'll all for him being right even if it's only one time about only one thing -- that's better than nothing.

nerfhammer 10y ago

> However, is Travis really the best messenger? One, should or would Kalanick say to himself, well, maybe I'm not the BEST messenger... so I'll just keep totally quiet on this one... Two, if he just kept quiet, does it seem possible that people would then complain that he's bad for keeping quiet?

rz2k 10y ago

A lot of people think that Trump does not sincerely believe the things that he is saying, and furthermore that he not the best messenger. However, at his most incoherent there are people who vehemently agree with anything he says because they think he is a "winner". I'd guess that anyone who already thinks this is an outrageously bad decision isn't going to change their mind because they dislike this messenger. As for the others, they seem unpredictable when it comes to what works or doesn't work with them. Maybe they think he's implicitly credible as a rich guy who isn't sentimental and doesn't make an effort to be portrayed as a do-gooder.

draw_down 10y ago

> is Travis really the best messenger? There is a saying among photographers: "The best camera is the one you have with you."

wfo 10y ago

So what? One good thing that's come from the Trump presidency is unity. Me and my more conservative colleagues and friends were always cordial and have had healthy debates but we are now in vehement agreement -- against Trump. I'll give you that Travis is a total scumbag. Maybe he is. Maybe he doesn't care about this issue. I don't care. He's right this time, about this issue, and when we're talking about it, that's good enough for me. Trump's policies will be devastating and he will attempt to loot, pillage, and destroy every part of the country. It will take our country decades to recover from the damage he does, if it ever recovers. If the coalition that forms up against him is slightly different for every issue and creates some unlikely bedfellows, well so be it. We need all the help we can get. The office of the president is unbelievably powerful -- something some of us have been very concerned about since GWB and on through Obama. In fact anti-Trump republicans/businessmen/'generally all around bad guys' mean a whole lot more right now than the guaranteed liberal coalition against him.

tptacek 10y ago
You're not the only person I've heard say that recently. The question is: can we build organizational momentum to keep this up for the long haul, and can we make it through however long a Trump/Bannon administration will be without grave harm to the country? I'm hopeful, but we have to do more than appreciate unity and engagement: we have to build on it, and reinforce it. So as not to repeat myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13510304