3 ms·

> I can't speak for the East Bay, though, but that increases the commute tremendously. Much like the CAP theorem, you can only optimize for two of: good school

> I can't speak for the East Bay, though, but that increases the commute tremendously. Much like the CAP theorem, you can only optimize for two of: good schools, good commute, good house prices Tremendously seems overstating it. Many in California are used to driving very long distances to work but you can get from even beyond where the BART line ends in Easy Bay to SF in an hour even with bad traffic. The trains in the bay area are a great way to minimize commuting to and from the city. Good house prices is too subjective. In some general sense sure but I don't think CAP is a good analogy here. > I said it sounded like he had a sense of entitlement, I actually meant from the point of view of the company. I mean it sounds like he also wants free meals included, and Wifi on the plane as well. I didn't get anything like that AT ALL from the OP's post. This sounds more like a strawman than anything else. > I hate to say it but he's only a dev manager. Personally I don't think unless his wife is an engineer or another high-wage career, that they shouldn't move. Their quality of life will suffer. Anything less than $300k combined salary is tough with kids, rent, commute, etc. This...is wildly off topic and pretty terrible advice. You don't really know anything about OP other than they wanted to know what other people's relocation packages were so they can compare and get an idea as to how generous, or not, this company's offering is. Yes the bay area is expensive but less than $300k a year isn't "tough" unless you're trying to live in a million dollar home and you're burning through money. You seem to have very unrealistic expectations. Personally, I make considerably less than $300k a year with two kids. We rent a large house and my kids go to highly rated public schools. It's expensive, yes, but I don't think I would call it "tough". In fact I see my family far, far more than I did when I worked on the east coast. My point being: everyone's situation is different and I think your perspective is a bit too narrow to be giving general, unsolicited advice.

pfarnsworth 10y ago
I guess we will agree to disagree. I stand 100% by my opinion/advice. I have many current and ex-coworkers and friends who suffer through a long commute, a shitty neighborhood, etc, even though they have great jobs. They are critically unhappy because they should be able to afford a home and live in a good neighborhood but they can't. If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job. Reasonable commute is relative. For example if you live as far east as the end of Pleasanton / Dublin in East Bay you can have a roughly 45 minute commute to the financial and nearby districts in SF. Point being you can hit your most or all of your marks and not need $300k a year. In fact that's a difficult amount for the average or even above average person to make and it's not always possible to have spouses working. Let people judge what they can and cannot afford to do. General statements like saying making under $300k is going to be tough isn't constructive and while it may be true in some instances it's certainly not true for all.
  - pfarnsworth 10y ago
    Of course it's constructive. People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". You may disagree, but as I said, we will agree to disagree.
    - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
      > People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. Before people pick up and move their entire lives they typically research the area. Suggesting otherwise is just a way of calling them stupid. If someone tells me they're doing X and want feedback on Y, I'm not going to automatically assume they're being stupid about X. Sounds rude to me. > I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". Sounds like you're in your own bubble. Its always good to seek out alternative views on something instead of just doubling down in your narrow set of anecdotes. If you're only asking your rich friends you're not going to have a good idea on the reality.
JumpingWombat 10y ago
> public schools to add 2c to the schools debate -- many of the south bay schools e.g. (for hs) monte vista, gunn, palo alto high, harker, menlo-atherton, ... currently have many recent students that are olympics-level athletes and international-level competitors in the sciences/humanities -- I would argue they tend to be better represented in the top US universities than many other places in the country.

pfarnsworth 10y ago

I guess we will agree to disagree. I stand 100% by my opinion/advice. I have many current and ex-coworkers and friends who suffer through a long commute, a shitty neighborhood, etc, even though they have great jobs. They are critically unhappy because they should be able to afford a home and live in a good neighborhood but they can't. If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job. Reasonable commute is relative. For example if you live as far east as the end of Pleasanton / Dublin in East Bay you can have a roughly 45 minute commute to the financial and nearby districts in SF. Point being you can hit your most or all of your marks and not need $300k a year. In fact that's a difficult amount for the average or even above average person to make and it's not always possible to have spouses working. Let people judge what they can and cannot afford to do. General statements like saying making under $300k is going to be tough isn't constructive and while it may be true in some instances it's certainly not true for all.
- pfarnsworth 10y ago
  Of course it's constructive. People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". You may disagree, but as I said, we will agree to disagree.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. Before people pick up and move their entire lives they typically research the area. Suggesting otherwise is just a way of calling them stupid. If someone tells me they're doing X and want feedback on Y, I'm not going to automatically assume they're being stupid about X. Sounds rude to me. > I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". Sounds like you're in your own bubble. Its always good to seek out alternative views on something instead of just doubling down in your narrow set of anecdotes. If you're only asking your rich friends you're not going to have a good idea on the reality.

JumpingWombat 10y ago

> public schools to add 2c to the schools debate -- many of the south bay schools e.g. (for hs) monte vista, gunn, palo alto high, harker, menlo-atherton, ... currently have many recent students that are olympics-level athletes and international-level competitors in the sciences/humanities -- I would argue they tend to be better represented in the top US universities than many other places in the country.