7 ms·

We can disagree on the historical lessons. I wonder, right now, which historical lesson you are referring to? If you mean Nazi Germany, my opinion is that there

We can disagree on the historical lessons. I wonder, right now, which historical lesson you are referring to? If you mean Nazi Germany, my opinion is that there aren't actually that many parallels. Or do you mean cases when cultures were eradicated by invaders (real Collapse for some examples, or look at the history of the USA)? Or maybe the cases where Muslims took power, like the Iranian revolution?

jacquesm 10y ago
The fall of Rome comes to mind. Divide and conquer is a fantastic strategy against a stronger opponent and Putin is playing this like a master. Maybe America's time has run out, but I for one would like to see the USA remain strong and united, I fear this may already past the point of no return and with ever day that goes by and this madness continuous you'll be looking wistfully back at those 'terrible' years under Obama, Bush, Clinton and so on. And in a way that is the most vexing of all this: Trump is lying through his teeth to get those votes, he will not be able to give his voters what he wants but in the meantime the clock is going backwards at a rate of about 4 years per week that this guy is in power. America's signature under a treaty (always a dicey thing) is now worth absolutely nothing, international relations are damaged for years to come, re-armament will be on the agenda in lots of places that were better off without the ability to slaughter their neighbors and so on. Think of it as the roll-back of 50 years of diplomatic policy that kept a large chunk of the world - the USA included - stable and prosperous.
- facepalm 10y ago
  I thought historians are still debating what caused the fall of Rome? I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... Between Putin and Assange there are very good reasons to damage America as much as they can get away with and it didn't take much to tip the balance. America has never been as divided in recent memory as what is happening today. To think that Putin would not be involved is naive, what with the situation in the Ukraine being what it is he desperately needs some way to get out of the stalemate and with America run by the likes of McCain and Clinton and NATO and the EU being strong and united there would be very little chance of that. Putin stands the most to gain from all this by far. > International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality. You must have missed his comments on Taiwan, Mexico and a whole bunch of other countries.
    - facepalm 10y ago
      If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Is it because Russians are such good hackers? Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        > If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. Destruction and construction are asymmetric. It takes far less effort to destroy something than it does to create something and things that are delicately balanced can be toppled with only a small application of force. > What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Internal divisions, magnified to make them seem larger than they really are. > Is it because Russians are such good hackers? No, it is because when it comes to propaganda Russia has a leg (or rather several legs) up compared to the USA. The USA would do something like 'voice of America', the Russians would carpet bomb the nation with their version of the story, a history to corroborate their version and a continuous barrage of flak to get in the way of intelligent discussion. And anybody that managed to get some kind of opposition going would as a rule never be heard from again. Fortunately in America that stage has not yet been reached, let's hope it will never happen. > Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. Ok > But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. No, but they weren't all-out enemies either and Trump is pushing in that direction (not Taiwan). Even in Europe, one of the USA's staunchest allies when it comes to operations abroad there is strong talk of distancing because of the new perceived instability of America. > There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not. Yes, but just like Hitler found out: you can't fight wars on all fronts at once.

jacquesm 10y ago

The fall of Rome comes to mind. Divide and conquer is a fantastic strategy against a stronger opponent and Putin is playing this like a master. Maybe America's time has run out, but I for one would like to see the USA remain strong and united, I fear this may already past the point of no return and with ever day that goes by and this madness continuous you'll be looking wistfully back at those 'terrible' years under Obama, Bush, Clinton and so on. And in a way that is the most vexing of all this: Trump is lying through his teeth to get those votes, he will not be able to give his voters what he wants but in the meantime the clock is going backwards at a rate of about 4 years per week that this guy is in power. America's signature under a treaty (always a dicey thing) is now worth absolutely nothing, international relations are damaged for years to come, re-armament will be on the agenda in lots of places that were better off without the ability to slaughter their neighbors and so on. Think of it as the roll-back of 50 years of diplomatic policy that kept a large chunk of the world - the USA included - stable and prosperous.

facepalm 10y ago
I thought historians are still debating what caused the fall of Rome? I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... Between Putin and Assange there are very good reasons to damage America as much as they can get away with and it didn't take much to tip the balance. America has never been as divided in recent memory as what is happening today. To think that Putin would not be involved is naive, what with the situation in the Ukraine being what it is he desperately needs some way to get out of the stalemate and with America run by the likes of McCain and Clinton and NATO and the EU being strong and united there would be very little chance of that. Putin stands the most to gain from all this by far. > International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality. You must have missed his comments on Taiwan, Mexico and a whole bunch of other countries.
  - facepalm 10y ago
    If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Is it because Russians are such good hackers? Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. Destruction and construction are asymmetric. It takes far less effort to destroy something than it does to create something and things that are delicately balanced can be toppled with only a small application of force. > What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Internal divisions, magnified to make them seem larger than they really are. > Is it because Russians are such good hackers? No, it is because when it comes to propaganda Russia has a leg (or rather several legs) up compared to the USA. The USA would do something like 'voice of America', the Russians would carpet bomb the nation with their version of the story, a history to corroborate their version and a continuous barrage of flak to get in the way of intelligent discussion. And anybody that managed to get some kind of opposition going would as a rule never be heard from again. Fortunately in America that stage has not yet been reached, let's hope it will never happen. > Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. Ok > But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. No, but they weren't all-out enemies either and Trump is pushing in that direction (not Taiwan). Even in Europe, one of the USA's staunchest allies when it comes to operations abroad there is strong talk of distancing because of the new perceived instability of America. > There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not. Yes, but just like Hitler found out: you can't fight wars on all fronts at once.