> With a science of programming, we can aspire to a position where programmers can at least claim to be engineers. This is not a good aspiration I think. Engin

> With a science of programming, we can aspire to a position where programmers can at least claim to be engineers. This is not a good aspiration I think. Engineers can be replaced with not huge efforts, while you can't easily replace artists. Also this vision will lead to more bad programmers coming out from universities (if programming is an art), as the process of learning programming is totally different if you think it's a science or art. If it's a science, do CS courses. If it is an art, put them into craftsman shops to learn how to code.