5 ms·

You are drowning in your own bias. Everybody who disagrees with you is stupid?

jacquesm 10y ago
No, obviously not. We can disagree on all kinds of things. What we can't disagree on are facts and figures and historical lessons learned about walking certain paths. If we fail to learn from the past we will repeat it endlessly and I really could do without a repeat of the path that we are currently on. But who knows, maybe the world just needs it's population reset every half century or so, we're overdue. With the kind of bull-in-a-China-shop behavior on display at the moment it's a toss-up how this will end but war is definitely on the menu.
- facepalm 10y ago
  We can disagree on the historical lessons. I wonder, right now, which historical lesson you are referring to? If you mean Nazi Germany, my opinion is that there aren't actually that many parallels. Or do you mean cases when cultures were eradicated by invaders (real Collapse for some examples, or look at the history of the USA)? Or maybe the cases where Muslims took power, like the Iranian revolution?
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    The fall of Rome comes to mind. Divide and conquer is a fantastic strategy against a stronger opponent and Putin is playing this like a master. Maybe America's time has run out, but I for one would like to see the USA remain strong and united, I fear this may already past the point of no return and with ever day that goes by and this madness continuous you'll be looking wistfully back at those 'terrible' years under Obama, Bush, Clinton and so on. And in a way that is the most vexing of all this: Trump is lying through his teeth to get those votes, he will not be able to give his voters what he wants but in the meantime the clock is going backwards at a rate of about 4 years per week that this guy is in power. America's signature under a treaty (always a dicey thing) is now worth absolutely nothing, international relations are damaged for years to come, re-armament will be on the agenda in lots of places that were better off without the ability to slaughter their neighbors and so on. Think of it as the roll-back of 50 years of diplomatic policy that kept a large chunk of the world - the USA included - stable and prosperous.
    - facepalm 10y ago
      I thought historians are still debating what caused the fall of Rome? I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        > I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... Between Putin and Assange there are very good reasons to damage America as much as they can get away with and it didn't take much to tip the balance. America has never been as divided in recent memory as what is happening today. To think that Putin would not be involved is naive, what with the situation in the Ukraine being what it is he desperately needs some way to get out of the stalemate and with America run by the likes of McCain and Clinton and NATO and the EU being strong and united there would be very little chance of that. Putin stands the most to gain from all this by far. > International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality. You must have missed his comments on Taiwan, Mexico and a whole bunch of other countries.
        facepalm 10y ago
        If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Is it because Russians are such good hackers? Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        > If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. Destruction and construction are asymmetric. It takes far less effort to destroy something than it does to create something and things that are delicately balanced can be toppled with only a small application of force. > What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Internal divisions, magnified to make them seem larger than they really are. > Is it because Russians are such good hackers? No, it is because when it comes to propaganda Russia has a leg (or rather several legs) up compared to the USA. The USA would do something like 'voice of America', the Russians would carpet bomb the nation with their version of the story, a history to corroborate their version and a continuous barrage of flak to get in the way of intelligent discussion. And anybody that managed to get some kind of opposition going would as a rule never be heard from again. Fortunately in America that stage has not yet been reached, let's hope it will never happen. > Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. Ok > But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. No, but they weren't all-out enemies either and Trump is pushing in that direction (not Taiwan). Even in Europe, one of the USA's staunchest allies when it comes to operations abroad there is strong talk of distancing because of the new perceived instability of America. > There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not. Yes, but just like Hitler found out: you can't fight wars on all fronts at once.
- _callcc 10y ago
  The sort of facts-and-figures type of Democrat doesn't realize that politics is not the same thing as the technocratic administration of society. Politics is not an optimization problem, it's not about finding the "optimal" state of affairs or whatever. It's about hopes and dreams. It forms the horizon of the destiny people imagine for themselves, both individually and collectively. It's also about virtue, morality, sacrifice, etc. You may sneer but the masses do not. This is why Democrats lose. They have no vision. What they offer right now is the same boring, stagnant, soul-less status quo, guided along by accurate reasoning about facts and figures.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > This is why Democrats lose. This is not about winning or losing elections. This is about winning or losing (big time) as a country in the future. Rapid change is invariably bad, steady, slow changes and growth are good. The long view is the one to take, even if it can't be compressed down into juicy soundbites and isn't sexy. See, if you 'win' but end up wrecking your country then you lost anyway, 'boring' in politics is good. There is a reason that 'may you live in interesting times' is generally considered to be a curse, not a blessing.

No, obviously not. We can disagree on all kinds of things. What we can't disagree on are facts and figures and historical lessons learned about walking certain paths. If we fail to learn from the past we will repeat it endlessly and I really could do without a repeat of the path that we are currently on. But who knows, maybe the world just needs it's population reset every half century or so, we're overdue. With the kind of bull-in-a-China-shop behavior on display at the moment it's a toss-up how this will end but war is definitely on the menu.

facepalm 10y ago
We can disagree on the historical lessons. I wonder, right now, which historical lesson you are referring to? If you mean Nazi Germany, my opinion is that there aren't actually that many parallels. Or do you mean cases when cultures were eradicated by invaders (real Collapse for some examples, or look at the history of the USA)? Or maybe the cases where Muslims took power, like the Iranian revolution?
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The fall of Rome comes to mind. Divide and conquer is a fantastic strategy against a stronger opponent and Putin is playing this like a master. Maybe America's time has run out, but I for one would like to see the USA remain strong and united, I fear this may already past the point of no return and with ever day that goes by and this madness continuous you'll be looking wistfully back at those 'terrible' years under Obama, Bush, Clinton and so on. And in a way that is the most vexing of all this: Trump is lying through his teeth to get those votes, he will not be able to give his voters what he wants but in the meantime the clock is going backwards at a rate of about 4 years per week that this guy is in power. America's signature under a treaty (always a dicey thing) is now worth absolutely nothing, international relations are damaged for years to come, re-armament will be on the agenda in lots of places that were better off without the ability to slaughter their neighbors and so on. Think of it as the roll-back of 50 years of diplomatic policy that kept a large chunk of the world - the USA included - stable and prosperous.
  - facepalm 10y ago
    I thought historians are still debating what caused the fall of Rome? I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > I can't really take you serious if you invoke Putin as the supposed mastermind... Between Putin and Assange there are very good reasons to damage America as much as they can get away with and it didn't take much to tip the balance. America has never been as divided in recent memory as what is happening today. To think that Putin would not be involved is naive, what with the situation in the Ukraine being what it is he desperately needs some way to get out of the stalemate and with America run by the likes of McCain and Clinton and NATO and the EU being strong and united there would be very little chance of that. Putin stands the most to gain from all this by far. > International relations: because the countries he temporarily blocked for immigration have previously been such big friends to the USA? I don't think that accurately reflects reality. You must have missed his comments on Taiwan, Mexico and a whole bunch of other countries.
      - facepalm 10y ago
        If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Is it because Russians are such good hackers? Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not.
        jacquesm 10y ago
        > If Putin can control the US from his third world backwater, maybe he deserves to be in power. Destruction and construction are asymmetric. It takes far less effort to destroy something than it does to create something and things that are delicately balanced can be toppled with only a small application of force. > What makes him so good that the world's most advanced country is powerless against him? Internal divisions, magnified to make them seem larger than they really are. > Is it because Russians are such good hackers? No, it is because when it comes to propaganda Russia has a leg (or rather several legs) up compared to the USA. The USA would do something like 'voice of America', the Russians would carpet bomb the nation with their version of the story, a history to corroborate their version and a continuous barrage of flak to get in the way of intelligent discussion. And anybody that managed to get some kind of opposition going would as a rule never be heard from again. Fortunately in America that stage has not yet been reached, let's hope it will never happen. > Taiwan, Mexico and so on - fair enough. Ok > But overall it is not as if all the countries in the world were friends and only Trump is shaking things up now. No, but they weren't all-out enemies either and Trump is pushing in that direction (not Taiwan). Even in Europe, one of the USA's staunchest allies when it comes to operations abroad there is strong talk of distancing because of the new perceived instability of America. > There were always conflicts of interest, new trends that shift power (like oil and phracking), military interventions and what not. Yes, but just like Hitler found out: you can't fight wars on all fronts at once.
_callcc 10y ago
The sort of facts-and-figures type of Democrat doesn't realize that politics is not the same thing as the technocratic administration of society. Politics is not an optimization problem, it's not about finding the "optimal" state of affairs or whatever. It's about hopes and dreams. It forms the horizon of the destiny people imagine for themselves, both individually and collectively. It's also about virtue, morality, sacrifice, etc. You may sneer but the masses do not. This is why Democrats lose. They have no vision. What they offer right now is the same boring, stagnant, soul-less status quo, guided along by accurate reasoning about facts and figures.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > This is why Democrats lose. This is not about winning or losing elections. This is about winning or losing (big time) as a country in the future. Rapid change is invariably bad, steady, slow changes and growth are good. The long view is the one to take, even if it can't be compressed down into juicy soundbites and isn't sexy. See, if you 'win' but end up wrecking your country then you lost anyway, 'boring' in politics is good. There is a reason that 'may you live in interesting times' is generally considered to be a curse, not a blessing.