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It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. I'm relatively new here. One of the things I love about the community is that it has been somet

It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. I'm relatively new here. One of the things I love about the community is that it has been something of an oasis over the past few months. This is in no way intended to denigrate the esteemed author or his thesis. I'm just disappointed that we're at this point.

jordigh 10y ago
You can only afford to ignore politics for as long as it ignores you. This no longer ignores us, because it's affecting our friends, our companies, the pool of tech workers that make up the intelligence that builds Silicon Valley. This is entirely comparable to when Jewish scientists were first getting barred from getting positions in German universities. We are now seeing the much-publicised case of an Oscar-nominated director being unable to attend to receive his prize. There are many other, less publicised cases of colleagues getting barred from working alongside us. We can no longer ignore these politics.
- jsperson 10y ago
  I haven't been ignoring it at all. I read the news sections of the NYT almost in its entirety every day. Same with USAT and WashPost. There's a big difference between ignoring it and wishing that wishing that I wasn't immersed in it.
  - jordigh 10y ago
    I understand. It's sad and alarming that this is happening. But it's too late to wish that we could ignore it.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  > You can only afford to ignore politics for as long as it ignores you. Hey it's totally ignoring me. So sorry for Americans here, but I agree with the person you're responding to: I too liked HN for being quiet about Donald duck.
disantlor 10y ago
fair but there are such things as moments in history where things go one way or things go another way and the results of that breaking point cannot be reversed. there is no oasis in those times
- jsperson 10y ago
  And that's why I'm sad. It's so bad that there can't be an oasis. Again, not a commentary on the author or HN, but a commentary on society as it stands right now.
jacquesm 10y ago
Look at it this way: You can argue that want your little safe space where you can debate Erlang versus Go until the Titanic has gone down but at some point everything is politics and your life too will be affected (and likely not in a positive sense). Not all that long ago PG wanted to argue against the death penalty and it got debated wide and far, but not on HN because hey, we're techies and we can't be bothered with such un-important stuff, we're too busy changing the world. And then one day you look up from your keyboard and you realize that that little bubble you were living in is now affecting you and those around you. There is no safe space, that's just an illusion you can only afford to keep for so long. HN is only an oasis by virtue of willful ignorance about stuff that really matters and that is spinning out of control at a very rapid rate. Ignore it at your peril.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
czep 10y ago
> It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. Yes I'm sad about this too, but we can't turn our backs on this, it's just too big. We can't just pretend it will go away and the world will sort itself out. We can't retreat to the comfortable confines of our algorithms and code, the real world needs us and needs us now. What's happening is literally sickening to me. The thought of young people in 20 years looking at me and saying "You caused this, you did this to us" is a terrifying image. I blame my parents for Reagan, but this time it's on me. And I'm not going to let this go any further. We all need to get out of our happy code utopia and confront the real world before it is all destroyed. We need to stop this, and we need to stop this now.
- awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago
  We can't retreat to the comfortable confines of our algorithms and code, the real world needs us and needs us now. Judging by the comments here, HNers have nothing to offer the real world (of politics) other than shrill shrieking about racism and bigotry. That's not going to help anything. If you actually want to create political change, put your head back into your work and amass a fortune. Maybe in 20 years you'll have enough to make a difference.
  - guildwriter 10y ago
    "Should you undertake political violence in response to the age of Trump? I don’t know; what political violence, by whom, against which targets, towards what end, as part of what larger strategic campaign? If you don’t have answers to those questions then the debate is useless. Should you undertake direct action? I don’t know; what direct action, by whom, in what sites, towards what end, as part of what larger political campaign? Should you get involved in partisan politics? I don’t know; what campaigns, for what party, towards what specific political goal, as part of what larger vision of building an effective mass movement? Should you call your members of Congress? Same deal. No more dorm room debates. No more abstraction. What is going to actually work to build a better world, right now, under these real-world conditions? What’s your plan to make real, substantive, large-scale progress? That’s the question you’re confronted with. If you can’t tie a particular act to a plausible vision of how to make real progress in the real world, then you’re wasting your time." http://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/01/25/make-every-question-a-strategic-question/ http://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/01/25/make-every-question-a-st... If the Democrats and liberally minded people want to affect true political change, then this kind of discourse needs to take hold within discussions like these. There's far too much emoting and virtue signaling going on that builds up tribal unity at the expense of alienating all others that do not go along with it. Like it or not, a significant portion of the country is deeply afraid of Islamic terrorism. They are not assuaged by the methodology of the past 8 years. What alternative solution can the left offer that calms their fears while holding true to core ideology of the movement? Calling these people racist may energize your base and serve as catharsis, but is going to shrink the potential voting base more and more. It deeply saddens me to see how much invective is being thrown around on a community that I prize for being able to discuss technical issues at great depth.
lucb1e 10y ago
Me too. It even pops up on notifications that I set to filter out the top 5% (or so) of posts, so I don't miss anything that was really good. When governments of "other countries" do something like this, it's a political post that has no place on HN. When it's America, oh boy do we get involved. I understand this place is 90% American, but truly, there are plenty of other places to discuss this.
RangerScience 10y ago
I mean.... Stay out of the political posts? The tech stuff seems unaffected by this. One thing I love about this community is that, even on divisive political issues, I usually see excellent discussion and points, specifically by people who disagree with me. I want HN debating politics* because of how HN debates. * But yeah, as long as it stays to DEFINITELY political posts. Only politics I want in my tech is language wars :P
- dang 10y ago
  > I want HN debating politics because of how HN debates.* That only works because HN mostly isn't about politics. There must be a name for this paradox.

jordigh 10y ago

You can only afford to ignore politics for as long as it ignores you. This no longer ignores us, because it's affecting our friends, our companies, the pool of tech workers that make up the intelligence that builds Silicon Valley. This is entirely comparable to when Jewish scientists were first getting barred from getting positions in German universities. We are now seeing the much-publicised case of an Oscar-nominated director being unable to attend to receive his prize. There are many other, less publicised cases of colleagues getting barred from working alongside us. We can no longer ignore these politics.

jsperson 10y ago
I haven't been ignoring it at all. I read the news sections of the NYT almost in its entirety every day. Same with USAT and WashPost. There's a big difference between ignoring it and wishing that wishing that I wasn't immersed in it.
- jordigh 10y ago
  I understand. It's sad and alarming that this is happening. But it's too late to wish that we could ignore it.
lucb1e 10y ago
> You can only afford to ignore politics for as long as it ignores you. Hey it's totally ignoring me. So sorry for Americans here, but I agree with the person you're responding to: I too liked HN for being quiet about Donald duck.

disantlor 10y ago

fair but there are such things as moments in history where things go one way or things go another way and the results of that breaking point cannot be reversed. there is no oasis in those times

jsperson 10y ago
And that's why I'm sad. It's so bad that there can't be an oasis. Again, not a commentary on the author or HN, but a commentary on society as it stands right now.

jacquesm 10y ago

Look at it this way: You can argue that want your little safe space where you can debate Erlang versus Go until the Titanic has gone down but at some point everything is politics and your life too will be affected (and likely not in a positive sense). Not all that long ago PG wanted to argue against the death penalty and it got debated wide and far, but not on HN because hey, we're techies and we can't be bothered with such un-important stuff, we're too busy changing the world. And then one day you look up from your keyboard and you realize that that little bubble you were living in is now affecting you and those around you. There is no safe space, that's just an illusion you can only afford to keep for so long. HN is only an oasis by virtue of willful ignorance about stuff that really matters and that is spinning out of control at a very rapid rate. Ignore it at your peril.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

czep 10y ago

> It makes me sad that politics has made its way to the top of HN. Yes I'm sad about this too, but we can't turn our backs on this, it's just too big. We can't just pretend it will go away and the world will sort itself out. We can't retreat to the comfortable confines of our algorithms and code, the real world needs us and needs us now. What's happening is literally sickening to me. The thought of young people in 20 years looking at me and saying "You caused this, you did this to us" is a terrifying image. I blame my parents for Reagan, but this time it's on me. And I'm not going to let this go any further. We all need to get out of our happy code utopia and confront the real world before it is all destroyed. We need to stop this, and we need to stop this now.

awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago
We can't retreat to the comfortable confines of our algorithms and code, the real world needs us and needs us now. Judging by the comments here, HNers have nothing to offer the real world (of politics) other than shrill shrieking about racism and bigotry. That's not going to help anything. If you actually want to create political change, put your head back into your work and amass a fortune. Maybe in 20 years you'll have enough to make a difference.
- guildwriter 10y ago
  "Should you undertake political violence in response to the age of Trump? I don’t know; what political violence, by whom, against which targets, towards what end, as part of what larger strategic campaign? If you don’t have answers to those questions then the debate is useless. Should you undertake direct action? I don’t know; what direct action, by whom, in what sites, towards what end, as part of what larger political campaign? Should you get involved in partisan politics? I don’t know; what campaigns, for what party, towards what specific political goal, as part of what larger vision of building an effective mass movement? Should you call your members of Congress? Same deal. No more dorm room debates. No more abstraction. What is going to actually work to build a better world, right now, under these real-world conditions? What’s your plan to make real, substantive, large-scale progress? That’s the question you’re confronted with. If you can’t tie a particular act to a plausible vision of how to make real progress in the real world, then you’re wasting your time." http://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/01/25/make-every-question-a-strategic-question/ http://fredrikdeboer.com/2017/01/25/make-every-question-a-st... If the Democrats and liberally minded people want to affect true political change, then this kind of discourse needs to take hold within discussions like these. There's far too much emoting and virtue signaling going on that builds up tribal unity at the expense of alienating all others that do not go along with it. Like it or not, a significant portion of the country is deeply afraid of Islamic terrorism. They are not assuaged by the methodology of the past 8 years. What alternative solution can the left offer that calms their fears while holding true to core ideology of the movement? Calling these people racist may energize your base and serve as catharsis, but is going to shrink the potential voting base more and more. It deeply saddens me to see how much invective is being thrown around on a community that I prize for being able to discuss technical issues at great depth.

lucb1e 10y ago

Me too. It even pops up on notifications that I set to filter out the top 5% (or so) of posts, so I don't miss anything that was really good. When governments of "other countries" do something like this, it's a political post that has no place on HN. When it's America, oh boy do we get involved. I understand this place is 90% American, but truly, there are plenty of other places to discuss this.

RangerScience 10y ago

I mean.... Stay out of the political posts? The tech stuff seems unaffected by this. One thing I love about this community is that, even on divisive political issues, I usually see excellent discussion and points, specifically by people who disagree with me. I want HN debating politics* because of how HN debates. * But yeah, as long as it stays to DEFINITELY political posts. Only politics I want in my tech is language wars :P

dang 10y ago
> I want HN debating politics because of how HN debates.* That only works because HN mostly isn't about politics. There must be a name for this paradox.