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Glowforge marketed their laser cutter as a 3D laser printer, didn't they? As someone waiting for their Glowforge to ship, I really hope their device wasn't inv

Glowforge marketed their laser cutter as a 3D laser printer, didn't they? As someone waiting for their Glowforge to ship, I really hope their device wasn't involved in all this.

chris_st 10y ago
From Glowforge's website, for their base model: > It needs ventilation via the provided 4″ diameter (10.2cm) hose. We recommend putting the hose out a window.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  I'm guessing this is undergoing a hurried rewrite, to add something along the lines of 'or you may die.' they're gonna get sued out the yin-yang for this even if the dead couple totally ignored the instructions, on the grounds that the instructions didn't state the danger clearly enough. Having said that, while good safety information is important, two MIT-trained engineers should really have known better.
  - sulam 10y ago
    Why should they have known better? He was a software engineer and she may have had exposure to lab technique but a Glowforge doesn't scream "needs an industrial hood" or anything. Yes, they clearly _could_ have known better, but 'should' seems to be making too-strong assumptions about their class work, MIT or other. They could have had economics degrees for all we know (less likely given their careers, but you get my point).
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      Yeah, while I get that the general public misses this, I'm surprised to see people who apparently think that "engineer" means a Star Trek-style omnicompetent generalist.
      - anigbrowl 10y ago
        I dunno man, if something says you need to ventilate it by putting an exhaust hose outside, I figure there must be a good reason for that. I have a lot of hazardous chemicals in my house because I paint and a lot of artist paints have toxic ingredients. I read the safety warnings carefully even though I know little of chemistry.
        sulam 10y ago
        It says you don't need to vent if you use the filter.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      I read the safety notices that manufacturers affix to their products and take them at face value unless I have reason to believe otherwise. It seems kinda stupid not to.
      - sulam 10y ago
        And it said you don't need to vent if you use the filter.
  - Pxtl 10y ago
    Glowforge company is upthread, says the deceased were not customers of theres. Presumably it's a different brand of laser cutter. That said, I'm assuming Glowforge is going to scramble to make sure that users use their device safely regardless.
- zokier 10y ago
  They also say: > Lasers normally require some ventilation via a small tube out a nearby window. Our optional Air Filter that sits under Glowforge and ventilates using HEPA filters and charcoal, meaning no outside ventilation is required. Best to my knowledge HEPA and charcoal don't help against CO. So running one with the filter in an unventilated space might still be hazardous.
  - lappa 10y ago
    "To qualify as HEPA by US government standards, an air filter must remove (from the air that passes through) 99.97% of particles that have a size of 0.3 µm." Carbon monoxide is a few orders of magnitude too small to be caught by a HEPA filter, in fact a filter that could filter CO would filter oxygen and nitrogen as well. Such a filter would just be a pump. There, however, exists a patent for a filter for CO, it works by converting the CO to CO2: https://www.google.com/patents/US5564065 https://www.google.com/patents/US5564065
    - spqr0a1 10y ago
      It is possibly to filter gases of similar molecular weight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_gas_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_gas_separation This technique is routinely used to generate concentrated supplies of oxygen or nitrogen, but is wildly expensive compared to ventilation.
    - Baeocystin 10y ago
      Needing to eliminate CO is an old, well-solved problem. Even the cheapest catalytic converter would do so. (It's not quite as simple as just putting one in-line with the waste gas flow- the catalyst would also need to be externally heated.)
- tomaskafka 10y ago
  ... while all their marketing materials and videos show Glowforge sitting happily in the middle of a living room with absolutely no exhaust pipe.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
  I think the bigger issues is that these kinds of DIY maker tools are marketed as in-home. You wouldn't put a band saw in your spare bedroom-why do people use these kinds of tools in a normal house/apartment? Though two engineers living in Berkeley are probably not going to have a garage, alas.

Glowforge marketed their laser cutter as a 3D laser printer, didn't they? As someone waiting for their Glowforge to ship, I really hope their device wasn't involved in all this.

chris_st 10y ago

From Glowforge's website, for their base model: > It needs ventilation via the provided 4″ diameter (10.2cm) hose. We recommend putting the hose out a window.

anigbrowl 10y ago
I'm guessing this is undergoing a hurried rewrite, to add something along the lines of 'or you may die.' they're gonna get sued out the yin-yang for this even if the dead couple totally ignored the instructions, on the grounds that the instructions didn't state the danger clearly enough. Having said that, while good safety information is important, two MIT-trained engineers should really have known better.
- sulam 10y ago
  Why should they have known better? He was a software engineer and she may have had exposure to lab technique but a Glowforge doesn't scream "needs an industrial hood" or anything. Yes, they clearly _could_ have known better, but 'should' seems to be making too-strong assumptions about their class work, MIT or other. They could have had economics degrees for all we know (less likely given their careers, but you get my point).
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Yeah, while I get that the general public misses this, I'm surprised to see people who apparently think that "engineer" means a Star Trek-style omnicompetent generalist.
    - anigbrowl 10y ago
      I dunno man, if something says you need to ventilate it by putting an exhaust hose outside, I figure there must be a good reason for that. I have a lot of hazardous chemicals in my house because I paint and a lot of artist paints have toxic ingredients. I read the safety warnings carefully even though I know little of chemistry.
      - sulam 10y ago
        It says you don't need to vent if you use the filter.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    I read the safety notices that manufacturers affix to their products and take them at face value unless I have reason to believe otherwise. It seems kinda stupid not to.
    - sulam 10y ago
      And it said you don't need to vent if you use the filter.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  Glowforge company is upthread, says the deceased were not customers of theres. Presumably it's a different brand of laser cutter. That said, I'm assuming Glowforge is going to scramble to make sure that users use their device safely regardless.
zokier 10y ago
They also say: > Lasers normally require some ventilation via a small tube out a nearby window. Our optional Air Filter that sits under Glowforge and ventilates using HEPA filters and charcoal, meaning no outside ventilation is required. Best to my knowledge HEPA and charcoal don't help against CO. So running one with the filter in an unventilated space might still be hazardous.
- lappa 10y ago
  "To qualify as HEPA by US government standards, an air filter must remove (from the air that passes through) 99.97% of particles that have a size of 0.3 µm." Carbon monoxide is a few orders of magnitude too small to be caught by a HEPA filter, in fact a filter that could filter CO would filter oxygen and nitrogen as well. Such a filter would just be a pump. There, however, exists a patent for a filter for CO, it works by converting the CO to CO2: https://www.google.com/patents/US5564065 https://www.google.com/patents/US5564065
  - spqr0a1 10y ago
    It is possibly to filter gases of similar molecular weight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_gas_separation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_gas_separation This technique is routinely used to generate concentrated supplies of oxygen or nitrogen, but is wildly expensive compared to ventilation.
  - Baeocystin 10y ago
    Needing to eliminate CO is an old, well-solved problem. Even the cheapest catalytic converter would do so. (It's not quite as simple as just putting one in-line with the waste gas flow- the catalyst would also need to be externally heated.)
tomaskafka 10y ago
... while all their marketing materials and videos show Glowforge sitting happily in the middle of a living room with absolutely no exhaust pipe.
ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
I think the bigger issues is that these kinds of DIY maker tools are marketed as in-home. You wouldn't put a band saw in your spare bedroom-why do people use these kinds of tools in a normal house/apartment? Though two engineers living in Berkeley are probably not going to have a garage, alas.