7 ms·

The real 'Calexit': 21 counties have filed to secede from California (2016)

28 points by mbgaxyz 10y ago

mbgaxyz 10y ago
Sacramento Bee: "State of Jefferson supporters plan bill seeking independence from California Jefferson proponents contend that their rural areas lack adequate representation in state government, which has led to over-regulation and environmental policies that decimated their regional economies, particularly the logging and mining industries that historically supported them. Their seal bears an XX, signifying that they have been double-crossed by state government. At a rally on the steps of the Capitol to celebrate the “declaration day,” Mark Baird, a retired pilot from Siskiyou County who has led the Jefferson movement, called it “systematic persecution” and promised to “start a straight-up fight with the people in that building” to win their independence. “We live in a state led by liars,” he said. “They have no empathy for what it takes to live our lives.” http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article53355675.html http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert...
mc32 10y ago
If it were to happen, it's probably for the better. CA is outgrowing its population and cannot effectively and simultaneously serve urbanites and the more rural aspects of the population well. Jeffersonians will get their representation in the US congress and Californians will continue their urban agenda without having to pretend to think about the more agricultural and rural aspect of the state. It would make national elections more interesting --whereas now CA is uncontested and neither Dems or Reps show up except for the Dems who show up for the money.
- intopieces 10y ago
  Jefferson's representation in US Congress would be ceremonial at best. Their population is too small. They are much more likely to get concessions from the state than the dysfunctional federal government.
  - mc32 10y ago
    Do you think Idaho's representation in the US congress is "ceremonial at best"? Those 21 counties constitute a nice slice of CA pop and given their agricultural might, I think the US congress would give them some attention.
    - intopieces 10y ago
      Idaho was admitted to the US in 1890. That's a 127 year head start at forging a place in national politics. A state's politician does not get taken seriously merely by existing, but by long-held ties between the representative the surrounding economic regions. These ties take time to establish. By the time anyone started taking The State of Jefferson seriously, the entire secession movement will be in old age homes, long since squandering any immediate benefit they could have gotten had they negotiated with the closest government instead of the furthest.
      - mc32 10y ago
        I don' think that's quite right. It's not a backwater without economic output. Dems and esp Reps would try to woo the new state given the relative equilibrium in electoral college votes as well as in the senate. Sacto really pays little attention to "Jefferson" They care much more about the noisy areas like SF and LA. Looks at how Sacto manages water rights. It's all about the cities. A Jefferson might become more assertive about their water and the rights to it.
        intopieces 10y ago
        Yes, they care more about the places with more voters and more taxpayers. Those counties mentioned in the article are experiencing net losses in population, even as the state grows. It is not in their best interest to separate themselves from the economic powerhouses of SF and LA.
intopieces 10y ago
(2016), please. Article makes references to Obama making recent executive orders.
- dang 10y ago
  Thanks—added.
baybal2 10y ago
America needs a civil war to get its "" together, to wipe out the political establishment that has gone beyond the point of no return
- grzm 10y ago
  Are you a US citizen or live in the US? Please be very careful when advocating violence, especially on the scale of a civil war.
- sehr 10y ago
  Shut the fuck up, child.
  - baybal2 10y ago
    A patriot will sacrifice his house, money, property, family, wife, children, position in society, friends for his country. Those who are not willing to readily abandon all of that without hesitation, are not patriots.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
      What have you done this week to make this country a better place.
    - krapp 10y ago
      Are you a patriot? Are you even American? Are you willing to abandon everything and take up arms against your fellow countrymen, as just the sort of fool that Thomas Jefferson rightly described as the natural manure of the Tree of Liberty? You're just another tedious internet revolutionary and, honestly, we've seen better.
      - baybal2 10y ago
        Once a pattern of political tyrany is established, the country is done for. The death will either fast or long and painful. Either civil war happens and everything is destroyed, or the institutes of a nation rot to the point the country is no more and a 3 storey mansion in it can be bough for half of Canadian median salary. What has happened in Syria once first shots were fired: Wise rich men dumped every piece of property and ran away fully aware of what will happen. As the aforesaid happened, Syrian pound value began to close on 0. This already ment that in a country with debased economy, you can't buy a cheap laptop even if you sell a whole house let alone buying a plane ticket out of the country. From that point, all ordinary people without huge sums of foreign currency are, basically speaking, doomed. And ownership of foreign currencies was already pretty much outlawed long before the conflict. To prevent the state currency value hitting that of toilet paper, the tyrant prohibits immigration from the country so people would not dump Syrian pound. Import of goods is outlawed for regular people. The last scraps of pound value was spent to import guns. At that point, the general population is screwed the second time. They know, the alternative to "ending it all in one go" does not exist anymore. Now, half of the population are drifting from city to city, backpacking. The few mentally adequate aides of the tyrant leave the country as the last people with significant reserves of foreign currency. Now, the only guys fighting for the dictator are equally desperate people: thugs recruited from the lowest of the low, including criminals (shabihi). Now, a mayor of your town is yesterday's mafioso that was making money racketeering. No commercial activity has any meaning now. If whatever you have left have no value, you are screwed, but now you are screwed even more because you can't make any more money at all. You just get a bullet in the forehead, and the city mayor steals your goods and food like in a some dumb zombie apocalypse videogame. All what is left after this point is either to fight, or to die. And most likely, you will be forced to fight. Either at gun point for the government, or for rebels as not fighting will be deemed as a show of loyalty to one side or another. At this stage, even becoming an ISISian will look a good deal just to regain a glimpse of past ordinary life. Would you like to end like that because you just don't want to loose your job, or be socially ostracized? Your past ordinary life already has a set expiration date whether you will decide to cling on it or not, it will be no more. I saw quite a few formerly esteemed people from Syria, and even one former Syrian googler: a bank C-level, a family of a huge shopping mall owner, few people who ran IT outsourcing businesses. Whomever you see coming to the West on rights of human beings, and not refugees are guys like these. And even they have to backpack in hostels with their families. The banker even showed a sport bag full of Syrian pound stacks. He said that he hoped that if the pound will regain even 1/20th of it past value, he can at least buy a new set of clothes for his family.
myrandomcomment 10y ago
"Pull onto the freeway leaving the San Francisco International Airport, and you recognize the California from the movies: palm trees..." Palm Trees? Sure you are not at LAX? ;)
myrandomcomment 10y ago
We should 100% allow them to go. Let's move the capital to SF or LA which makes way more sense. As far as water goes, a new nuke plant on the coast to do desalinization. Hum, this idea all works until the nuke plant as those left in CA will scream at the idea because despite all their professed education they still refused to except science when it goes against their "religious" belief (nuclear being the equivalent of Satan.) Maybe we should break up into even more parts, where there is a state made up of only the startup tech engineering areas. Self driving cars and hyperloop here we come! Heck, maybe we could get a space elevator. We have to carve a path down to LA to encircle SpaceX. Hint: some of this is sarcastic, up to you to figure out which parts.

28 points by mbgaxyz 10y ago

Sacramento Bee: "State of Jefferson supporters plan bill seeking independence from California Jefferson proponents contend that their rural areas lack adequate representation in state government, which has led to over-regulation and environmental policies that decimated their regional economies, particularly the logging and mining industries that historically supported them. Their seal bears an XX, signifying that they have been double-crossed by state government. At a rally on the steps of the Capitol to celebrate the “declaration day,” Mark Baird, a retired pilot from Siskiyou County who has led the Jefferson movement, called it “systematic persecution” and promised to “start a straight-up fight with the people in that building” to win their independence. “We live in a state led by liars,” he said. “They have no empathy for what it takes to live our lives.” http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article53355675.html http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert...

mc32 10y ago

If it were to happen, it's probably for the better. CA is outgrowing its population and cannot effectively and simultaneously serve urbanites and the more rural aspects of the population well. Jeffersonians will get their representation in the US congress and Californians will continue their urban agenda without having to pretend to think about the more agricultural and rural aspect of the state. It would make national elections more interesting --whereas now CA is uncontested and neither Dems or Reps show up except for the Dems who show up for the money.

intopieces 10y ago
Jefferson's representation in US Congress would be ceremonial at best. Their population is too small. They are much more likely to get concessions from the state than the dysfunctional federal government.
- mc32 10y ago
  Do you think Idaho's representation in the US congress is "ceremonial at best"? Those 21 counties constitute a nice slice of CA pop and given their agricultural might, I think the US congress would give them some attention.
  - intopieces 10y ago
    Idaho was admitted to the US in 1890. That's a 127 year head start at forging a place in national politics. A state's politician does not get taken seriously merely by existing, but by long-held ties between the representative the surrounding economic regions. These ties take time to establish. By the time anyone started taking The State of Jefferson seriously, the entire secession movement will be in old age homes, long since squandering any immediate benefit they could have gotten had they negotiated with the closest government instead of the furthest.
    - mc32 10y ago
      I don' think that's quite right. It's not a backwater without economic output. Dems and esp Reps would try to woo the new state given the relative equilibrium in electoral college votes as well as in the senate. Sacto really pays little attention to "Jefferson" They care much more about the noisy areas like SF and LA. Looks at how Sacto manages water rights. It's all about the cities. A Jefferson might become more assertive about their water and the rights to it.
      - intopieces 10y ago
        Yes, they care more about the places with more voters and more taxpayers. Those counties mentioned in the article are experiencing net losses in population, even as the state grows. It is not in their best interest to separate themselves from the economic powerhouses of SF and LA.

intopieces 10y ago

(2016), please. Article makes references to Obama making recent executive orders.

dang 10y ago
Thanks—added.

baybal2 10y ago

America needs a civil war to get its "" together, to wipe out the political establishment that has gone beyond the point of no return

grzm 10y ago
Are you a US citizen or live in the US? Please be very careful when advocating violence, especially on the scale of a civil war.
sehr 10y ago
Shut the fuck up, child.
- baybal2 10y ago
  A patriot will sacrifice his house, money, property, family, wife, children, position in society, friends for his country. Those who are not willing to readily abandon all of that without hesitation, are not patriots.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    What have you done this week to make this country a better place.
  - krapp 10y ago
    Are you a patriot? Are you even American? Are you willing to abandon everything and take up arms against your fellow countrymen, as just the sort of fool that Thomas Jefferson rightly described as the natural manure of the Tree of Liberty? You're just another tedious internet revolutionary and, honestly, we've seen better.
    - baybal2 10y ago
      Once a pattern of political tyrany is established, the country is done for. The death will either fast or long and painful. Either civil war happens and everything is destroyed, or the institutes of a nation rot to the point the country is no more and a 3 storey mansion in it can be bough for half of Canadian median salary. What has happened in Syria once first shots were fired: Wise rich men dumped every piece of property and ran away fully aware of what will happen. As the aforesaid happened, Syrian pound value began to close on 0. This already ment that in a country with debased economy, you can't buy a cheap laptop even if you sell a whole house let alone buying a plane ticket out of the country. From that point, all ordinary people without huge sums of foreign currency are, basically speaking, doomed. And ownership of foreign currencies was already pretty much outlawed long before the conflict. To prevent the state currency value hitting that of toilet paper, the tyrant prohibits immigration from the country so people would not dump Syrian pound. Import of goods is outlawed for regular people. The last scraps of pound value was spent to import guns. At that point, the general population is screwed the second time. They know, the alternative to "ending it all in one go" does not exist anymore. Now, half of the population are drifting from city to city, backpacking. The few mentally adequate aides of the tyrant leave the country as the last people with significant reserves of foreign currency. Now, the only guys fighting for the dictator are equally desperate people: thugs recruited from the lowest of the low, including criminals (shabihi). Now, a mayor of your town is yesterday's mafioso that was making money racketeering. No commercial activity has any meaning now. If whatever you have left have no value, you are screwed, but now you are screwed even more because you can't make any more money at all. You just get a bullet in the forehead, and the city mayor steals your goods and food like in a some dumb zombie apocalypse videogame. All what is left after this point is either to fight, or to die. And most likely, you will be forced to fight. Either at gun point for the government, or for rebels as not fighting will be deemed as a show of loyalty to one side or another. At this stage, even becoming an ISISian will look a good deal just to regain a glimpse of past ordinary life. Would you like to end like that because you just don't want to loose your job, or be socially ostracized? Your past ordinary life already has a set expiration date whether you will decide to cling on it or not, it will be no more. I saw quite a few formerly esteemed people from Syria, and even one former Syrian googler: a bank C-level, a family of a huge shopping mall owner, few people who ran IT outsourcing businesses. Whomever you see coming to the West on rights of human beings, and not refugees are guys like these. And even they have to backpack in hostels with their families. The banker even showed a sport bag full of Syrian pound stacks. He said that he hoped that if the pound will regain even 1/20th of it past value, he can at least buy a new set of clothes for his family.

myrandomcomment 10y ago

"Pull onto the freeway leaving the San Francisco International Airport, and you recognize the California from the movies: palm trees..." Palm Trees? Sure you are not at LAX? ;)

myrandomcomment 10y ago

We should 100% allow them to go. Let's move the capital to SF or LA which makes way more sense. As far as water goes, a new nuke plant on the coast to do desalinization. Hum, this idea all works until the nuke plant as those left in CA will scream at the idea because despite all their professed education they still refused to except science when it goes against their "religious" belief (nuclear being the equivalent of Satan.) Maybe we should break up into even more parts, where there is a state made up of only the startup tech engineering areas. Self driving cars and hyperloop here we come! Heck, maybe we could get a space elevator. We have to carve a path down to LA to encircle SpaceX. Hint: some of this is sarcastic, up to you to figure out which parts.