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Well, Bannon (Trump's Chief Strategist) is part of what's called the "alt-right" movement. Quoting from a ProPublica article[1]: "The alt-right believes in raci

Well, Bannon (Trump's Chief Strategist) is part of what's called the "alt-right" movement. Quoting from a ProPublica article[1]: "The alt-right believes in racially separate nation-states." They are okay with immigrant founders like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, since they are white. It seems like it's non-white immigrants they want to keep out. They also don't seem concerned with the economic impact of excluding non-white immigrants, as Bannon said "A country is more than an economy." [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/right-wing-extremism-white-nationalism-q-and-a-chip-bertlet https://www.propublica.org/article/right-wing-extremism-whit...

mistermann 10y ago
FWIW, there is no single definition for "alt-right". You're free to choose the definition that best advances your political leanings, but implying specificity to one description seems a bit disingenuous to me.
- joshwcomeau 10y ago
  I think it's pretty obvious that "alt-right" is an alias of "white supremacist". Neo-Nazis wanted a less loaded term so they came up with a new one, but it's the same people, same ideas.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    It's not that you're "wrong", but there are plenty of people who consider (or refer to themselves) as being alt-right, who are not white supremacists.
- 1024core 10y ago
  Your response doesn't add anything to the discussion. What are these other definitions you speak of? Please tell us and cite them, so we can make up our own minds which is more credible. Throwing in adhominems like "advances your political leanings", etc. is irrelevant. It's not like there's some alternate definition of "alt-right" that implies they're leftists!
  - mistermann 10y ago
    > Your response doesn't add anything to the discussion. What are these other definitions you speak of? Please tell us and cite them Be honest: are you being open minded? Here are a variety of definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right
- somebehemoth 10y ago
  What "alt-right" definition are you referring to that does not include racists?
  - mistermann 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right Some people have (perhaps unwittingly) chosen to identify as alt-right to distance themselves from mainstream Republican conservatives.
- jonathankoren 10y ago
  We should not forget that the alt-right is part of the neo-reactionary / dark enlightenment / Mencius Moldbug crowd. These people explicitly want to destroy liberal democracy and initiate the rule of hereditary strong men ruling ethnostates. This may sound like an exaggeration, but I encourage those that think this to actually read their writings. This is an explicit goal. These ideas are 21st century fascism as defined by Umberto Eco. Sadly, these people are on this very forum now. Edit: Yeah, mod me down to oblivion because i hurt your feelz.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    It is the left who is now telling us what thoughts and ideas are acceptable. It's amazing how the tides have turned in just 30 or so years.
    - jonathankoren 10y ago
      You're conflating legally permissible and socially acceptable. You're just crying about your feelz because nobody likes you. Go cry on your waifu pillow.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        If I was crying or commenting based on emotions, you'd have an excellent point. But as it is, you just look like an idiot who slanders anyone they disagree with rather than having a reasonable discussion.
        jonathankoren 10y ago
        If you wanted a discussion, you wouldn't be throwing out a one line bomb. Since you didn't raise an objection to anything I said, I can only assume you agree with my characterization. As they say, "It ain't slander if it's true."
- geofft 10y ago
  There is no single definition for, say, "hacker" either, and there might be plenty of hackers who don't use computers, but if you're portraying yourself as a hacker you have to be at least okay with computers. Same with the alt-right: there might be plenty of people who call themselves alt-right who aren't white nationalists, but the're okay with white nationalism. The /r/altright subreddit says on its sidebar: "Another core principle of the Alt-Right is Identitarianism. Identitarianism is the prioritization of social identity, regardless of political persuasion. Thus, the Alt-Right promotes White Identity and White Nationalism." Breitbart's 2016 article, "An Establishment Conservative's guide to the Alt Right" says: "The alt-right do not hold a utopian view of the human condition: just as they are inclined to prioritise the interests of their tribe, they recognise that other groups – Mexicans, African-Americans or Muslims – are likely to do the same. ... The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. The alt-right believe that some degree of separation between peoples is necessary for a culture to be preserved. A Mosque next to an English street full of houses bearing the flag of St. George, according to alt-righters, is neither an English street nor a Muslim street — separation is necessary for distinctiveness." If you have a problem with the "alt-right" being identified with a belief in racially-separate nation-states, take it up with the alt-right themselves.
  - mistermann 10y ago
    Thanks for an actual substantive comment. > The /r/altright subreddit says on its sidebar: "Another core principle of the Alt-Right is Identitarianism. Identitarianism is the prioritization of social identity, regardless of political persuasion. Thus, the Alt-Right promotes White Identity and White Nationalism." This was actually surprising news to me. One issue I have with the term "white nationalism" is: can you be white and a nationalist (putting your countrymen's needs first, regardless of skin color), without being a "white nationalist" (aka racist)? If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate your opinion on that question. Regardless, if a subreddit with 16,000+ subscribers self-proclaims it is white nationalist (rather than just nationalist), then I have no problem conceding that it seems that it is kind of gelling into an at least partially racist organization, which would lose my support. > The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. That is full-on mentally retarded, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that assertion, and plenty suggesting the exact opposite. Jesus Christ. (EDIT: Just to be crystal clear, I realize that was not your statement, it was Breitbart's. I'm going to go look that up because I find it extremely hard to believe they would actually be stupid enough to say that.) EDIT 2: Curious to see how long until my mystery downvoter shows up and downvotes my last set of comments. :) EDIT 3: After a skim of the article, I feel quite confident that "The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race" was an unintentional mistake, and replacing "race" with "nationality" or "community" would better express the writer's actual thoughts. This whole phenomenon is very interesting to me. I don't think many people would deny that your environment has a significant effect on your character development (nature vs nurture), would they? Yet, when you extend this idea to the national level, these very same people will now say it is literally impossible for your environment to influence a person's character. Or, people will gladly visit a foreign country and come back extolling the virtues of the culture, but if the topic of conversation change from tourism to immigration, the same people would passionately proclaim that it is a delusion to think that there is such a thing as "culture" of a nation.

mistermann 10y ago

FWIW, there is no single definition for "alt-right". You're free to choose the definition that best advances your political leanings, but implying specificity to one description seems a bit disingenuous to me.

joshwcomeau 10y ago
I think it's pretty obvious that "alt-right" is an alias of "white supremacist". Neo-Nazis wanted a less loaded term so they came up with a new one, but it's the same people, same ideas.
- mistermann 10y ago
  It's not that you're "wrong", but there are plenty of people who consider (or refer to themselves) as being alt-right, who are not white supremacists.
1024core 10y ago
Your response doesn't add anything to the discussion. What are these other definitions you speak of? Please tell us and cite them, so we can make up our own minds which is more credible. Throwing in adhominems like "advances your political leanings", etc. is irrelevant. It's not like there's some alternate definition of "alt-right" that implies they're leftists!
- mistermann 10y ago
  > Your response doesn't add anything to the discussion. What are these other definitions you speak of? Please tell us and cite them Be honest: are you being open minded? Here are a variety of definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right
somebehemoth 10y ago
What "alt-right" definition are you referring to that does not include racists?
- mistermann 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right Some people have (perhaps unwittingly) chosen to identify as alt-right to distance themselves from mainstream Republican conservatives.
jonathankoren 10y ago
We should not forget that the alt-right is part of the neo-reactionary / dark enlightenment / Mencius Moldbug crowd. These people explicitly want to destroy liberal democracy and initiate the rule of hereditary strong men ruling ethnostates. This may sound like an exaggeration, but I encourage those that think this to actually read their writings. This is an explicit goal. These ideas are 21st century fascism as defined by Umberto Eco. Sadly, these people are on this very forum now. Edit: Yeah, mod me down to oblivion because i hurt your feelz.
- mistermann 10y ago
  It is the left who is now telling us what thoughts and ideas are acceptable. It's amazing how the tides have turned in just 30 or so years.
  - jonathankoren 10y ago
    You're conflating legally permissible and socially acceptable. You're just crying about your feelz because nobody likes you. Go cry on your waifu pillow.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      If I was crying or commenting based on emotions, you'd have an excellent point. But as it is, you just look like an idiot who slanders anyone they disagree with rather than having a reasonable discussion.
      - jonathankoren 10y ago
        If you wanted a discussion, you wouldn't be throwing out a one line bomb. Since you didn't raise an objection to anything I said, I can only assume you agree with my characterization. As they say, "It ain't slander if it's true."
geofft 10y ago
There is no single definition for, say, "hacker" either, and there might be plenty of hackers who don't use computers, but if you're portraying yourself as a hacker you have to be at least okay with computers. Same with the alt-right: there might be plenty of people who call themselves alt-right who aren't white nationalists, but the're okay with white nationalism. The /r/altright subreddit says on its sidebar: "Another core principle of the Alt-Right is Identitarianism. Identitarianism is the prioritization of social identity, regardless of political persuasion. Thus, the Alt-Right promotes White Identity and White Nationalism." Breitbart's 2016 article, "An Establishment Conservative's guide to the Alt Right" says: "The alt-right do not hold a utopian view of the human condition: just as they are inclined to prioritise the interests of their tribe, they recognise that other groups – Mexicans, African-Americans or Muslims – are likely to do the same. ... The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. The alt-right believe that some degree of separation between peoples is necessary for a culture to be preserved. A Mosque next to an English street full of houses bearing the flag of St. George, according to alt-righters, is neither an English street nor a Muslim street — separation is necessary for distinctiveness." If you have a problem with the "alt-right" being identified with a belief in racially-separate nation-states, take it up with the alt-right themselves.
- mistermann 10y ago
  Thanks for an actual substantive comment. > The /r/altright subreddit says on its sidebar: "Another core principle of the Alt-Right is Identitarianism. Identitarianism is the prioritization of social identity, regardless of political persuasion. Thus, the Alt-Right promotes White Identity and White Nationalism." This was actually surprising news to me. One issue I have with the term "white nationalism" is: can you be white and a nationalist (putting your countrymen's needs first, regardless of skin color), without being a "white nationalist" (aka racist)? If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate your opinion on that question. Regardless, if a subreddit with 16,000+ subscribers self-proclaims it is white nationalist (rather than just nationalist), then I have no problem conceding that it seems that it is kind of gelling into an at least partially racist organization, which would lose my support. > The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race. That is full-on mentally retarded, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that assertion, and plenty suggesting the exact opposite. Jesus Christ. (EDIT: Just to be crystal clear, I realize that was not your statement, it was Breitbart's. I'm going to go look that up because I find it extremely hard to believe they would actually be stupid enough to say that.) EDIT 2: Curious to see how long until my mystery downvoter shows up and downvotes my last set of comments. :) EDIT 3: After a skim of the article, I feel quite confident that "The alt-right’s intellectuals would also argue that culture is inseparable from race" was an unintentional mistake, and replacing "race" with "nationality" or "community" would better express the writer's actual thoughts. This whole phenomenon is very interesting to me. I don't think many people would deny that your environment has a significant effect on your character development (nature vs nurture), would they? Yet, when you extend this idea to the national level, these very same people will now say it is literally impossible for your environment to influence a person's character. Or, people will gladly visit a foreign country and come back extolling the virtues of the culture, but if the topic of conversation change from tourism to immigration, the same people would passionately proclaim that it is a delusion to think that there is such a thing as "culture" of a nation.