9 ms·

Refugees Detained at U.S. Airports, Prompting Legal Challenges

137 points by bko 10y ago

gorbachev 10y ago
It's amazing to see policy making without any planning whatsoever.
- h_r 10y ago
  The fact that he said something about this topic during the campaign probably does count as planning on his eyes. Consequences can be dealt with on the fly.
- hedora 10y ago
  This seems well planned to me. We were told it was coming (not in this exact form) throughout the campaign. Trump has also promised to arrest millions of immigrants in the next four years. He has to start small. CBP already operates in the constitution free "border zone". It's a perfect way to normalize larger scale unlawful detentions in the public eye and set legal precedents. Put another way, Oakland and San Francisco airports are almost certainly illeglly detaining innocent people that are in the country legally right now. If the feds started by pulling people with visas and green cards from desks in Silicon Valley or SF there would be riots in the streets. I am talking about two groups of people within 50 miles of each other, which (until the executive order) had the same legal status. This is not OK, and it is naive to think it is poorly planned. (I hope you're right though, and trump tweets an apology/release order this weekend.)
thogenhaven 10y ago
This is most of all a story about instability in Western societies. In my 34 years on this planet, I cannot remember any time where one would enter a plane with a valid visa, only to realuze everything changed so swiftly. I'm concerned that this will be the trend many places in society now.
- xyzzy4 10y ago
  I saw one instance where someone was granted a fiancé visa, only to be turned away at the border because they answered "yes" for the question of having smoked pot once on one of the visa application forms. Unfortunately a visa does not guarantee access into the United States. You can stil be turned away or detained at the border.
- XorNot 10y ago
  If working as intended, this action by the executive in the US should prompt a swift reprisal from Congress, since the executive issuing secret orders to security forces which then go into effect (timed to avoid scrutiny before they happen) is massive overreach and enormously destabilizing. Unfortunately, Congresspeople on both sides seem to have lacked a spine for the better part of a decade.
- grappler 10y ago
  Just imagine what classified orders are being worked on, or already signed, right now. I wouldn't hold out much hope for any of the limits that have been in place regarding surveillance, foreign or domestic, on citizens or noncitizens.
  - hedora 10y ago
    Yeah, based on public executive orders (like no privacy unless you have a green card or are a citizen), I've given up on the idea of privacy from law enforcement at work. There are people with visas in ear shot, and on many of the pull requests I send out. Presumably it will be slurped real time into some NSA data center. Thanks to that thing Obama did in the 11th hour, it will then be streamed back to local law enforcement for data mining.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
zymhan 10y ago
This is disgusting. To show such blatant disregard for civil liberties and human rights and a dozen other pinnacles of developed/western/first world countries is an affront to what we've accomplished and supposedly learned from the past. I mean seriously, barring refugees on Holocaust Rememberance day, and then only describing those killed as "victims", seems like it should be a very, very dark SNL skit.
- polotics 10y ago
  Trump is putting the lives of soldiers who have to rely on these interpreters and local fixers at risk. It's now clear to anyone in Irak that whoever works for or help the Americans takes risks on all sides, and will not be supported. Just grrrrreat.
  - rl3 10y ago
    I found this article very informative: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/28/trump-refugee-rule-block-military-interpreters-us.html http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/28/trump-refugee-... The tl:dr is that interpreters are already vetted to an extreme degree before they can receive visas under the SIV program, and that this order may in fact cost lives.
  - williamle8300 10y ago
    We never should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan in the first place. Now that we have been for years, of course, we need human resources like interpreters and contractors just to maintain this nation-building crusade... but why are we maintaining it? America used to have a neutral stance like Switzerland towards foreign affairs, but in the last half century we increasingly evolved into a world police. Remember that before we entered WWII, we knew about Germany's injustices towards its neighbors but we kept our noses out of it––until they bombed Pearl Harbor. We used to have a solemn regard towards a nation's sovereignty. That needs to return to America. Trump's immigration executive order is the first step towards minding our own business and building up our nation via industry & innovation by American citizens.
mozumder 10y ago
Banning helpless refugees tells you more about the quality of Americans that feel threatened by them than it does the refugees themselves. The Trump supporters really are making themselves look like weak fools when they do something as pathetic as this. America needs to rid of these Trump people as soon as possible. Edit: As a reminder, refugees are innocent, while the Trump people are actually malicious. Nothing wrong with being punitive towards harmful and dangerous people.
- tabeth 10y ago
  This attitude is scary to be honest. I assume you don't see the irony in your comment.
  - mozumder 10y ago
    Refugees are innocent. The Trump people are actually malicious. Nothing wrong with being punitive towards harmful and dangerous people.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- gotchange 10y ago
  I don't think that it's fair to ascribe all the ideals and values in the policies championed by Trump to all of his supporters. Some of his supporters are pure evil and they don't hide it and they're not even satisfied by what he's doing and asking for more extremist measures like including all Muslim-majority countries on that list, and some of them are actually fooled by his economic demagoguery and platitudes and just want to get back to earning a decent living and screw everything else. So, painting all of his supporters with the same brush is counterproductive.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    I think its reasonable to hold them responsible for his reprehensible policies as that is what he promised during his campaign.
Cursuviam 10y ago
And students too. :P
becarefulyo 10y ago
This is absolutely ridiculous. Nationalism needs to be nipped at the bud before it spirals out of control. These orders should not be followed. Nuremberg defense doesn't hold up.
- wheelerwj 10y ago
  It's a little late for that. We have a real fight on our hands.
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    I was just thinking the same. This breed of nationalism has been steeping for some time. Likely before 9/11, but that was when it really started taking off.
- throwawayish 10y ago
  Remind me, who exactly voted the narcissistic nationalist into the executive office controlling the worlds largest surveillance and secret service/police apparatus? Small Government is a nice, and good, idea, but history shows us that neither surveillance apparatus (pl.) nor secret police (pl.) relinquish power, ever, within existing in the same continuum of legitimation (ie. state). There has been no previous instance where either were reduced; they only grow until chopped off entirely. It's an infestation of the state. There is only one - proven - cure. (And I think it's naïve to assume that those who built and grow these structures are not aware of this)
  - becarefulyo 10y ago
    Not me. You're right though, the biggest problem is all the people cheering this on. I read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and this seems to be escalating even faster.
  - gotchange 10y ago
    > Small Government is a nice, and good, idea, but history shows us that neither surveillance apparatus (pl.) nor secret police (pl.) relinquish power, ever, within existing in the same continuum of legitimation (ie. state). There has been no previous instance where either were reduced; they only grow until chopped off entirely. Is there a book or article that I can read about this point? I'd really appreciate it if you could show me a few examples.
wheelerwj 10y ago
> "Mr. President... Call Mr. Trump." Having been detained by CBP several times I can see the smug look on this officers face. Like, "It's not my policy but I'm happy to do my job." You see, this is the biggest problem that no one is talking about. Sure, these policies (mass surveillance, unlawful detention, violation of human rights) are handed down by edict by a powerful faction at the top of the food chain, but they are enforced by every day people. People against people, that's what this is about. Its our friends, our colleagues, and neighbors that are doing this. People, the people who have these jobs, have the moral right to resist these policies. They must fight their supervisors or they must resign if they cannot fight. We as a society have to agree that we won't mindlessly follow such ignorant leaders. Do you know why we still hunt down Nazi's 80 years later? Because "I'm just doing what I'm told" isn't a good excuse.
- throwawayish 10y ago
  I suspect this might be something people outside Germany or Europe are unaware of but > Do you know why we still hunt down Nazi's 80 years later? is actually a thing. There are still warrants out; Nazis (without the "Neo" part) are still arrested and convicted from time to time. Although I suspect this will come to an end soon, since people tend to die of old age now. Iirc some of the more recent trials ended with a conviction to incarceration, but no actual incarceration due to old age / medical issues.
- gotchange 10y ago
  That's why I'm in favor of the RW libertarians view of big government and how it's in the best interest of society to have as much small a government as possible to avoid situations like these as large bureaucracies tend to corrupt over time and when they turn evil, they hurt innocent people that come close to them.
  - otalp 10y ago
    The original Libertarians were left wing anti-government anarchists. The word was appropriated by the far right in the US, and The ones today are Ayn Rand fanatics- the likes of Paul Ryan, who are anti-labour and pro-business. Reducing the power of the government - an institution in which people have some kind of say in - while allowing corporations to flourish - institutions where citizens have absolutely no say in - leads to oligarchy. There are interesting approaches to reducing government size from left-liberterains(Libertarian socialist and Anarchists) but they are not mainstream in the US, which has shifted so far right over the last few decades that Eisenhower would in many policy matters be considered a far-left unelectable today.
csomar 10y ago
Imo, this is another show of why politics doesn't work. Or maybe why politics is not efficient. Somebody does something (an act of terrorism). Instead of fixing the issue at its core, a politician will, instead, do something that is completely unrelated, random and inefficient but that looks like he is doing real work (banning muslims from entry). A terrorist going on a killing spree is not different than a destabilized white American 30-something going on a killing spree. Both are destabilized (mentally) but for different reasons. Most people would not care because it doesn't affect their bottom line. Banning muslims isn't an issue for your average American family, even if it doesn't stop terrorism.
- becarefulyo 10y ago
  Spot on. In his ABC interview, he cited San Bernardino and 9/11 as reasons for this ban. The attackers in San Bernardino were a US citizen and Pakastani and the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia. Neither covered by this ban.
  - gorbachev 10y ago
    He also left countries where he has investments out of the ban. That's...interesting.
- zo1 10y ago
  This is the same line of reasoning that prevents valid use of profiling. Until you can clearly identify and prove the "issue" that you mention then we have to make do with half-solutions that may be the wrong answer in some instances. As an engineer/problem-solver I find this perfectly logical and reasonable. You can't just throw your arms up and say "sorry" when it could very well mean people dying and the dying of people is exactly what you're trying to prevent. If this blanket policy saves even one life I would find it justified. Either way... It doesn't sound like the two individuals in the article are actual persecuted refugees. The article doesn't elaborate on that. We're just expected to assume that. But we're told what amazing humans they are and how much they helped the US. That sounds more like a dishing out of green card favors in return for services.
aphextron 10y ago
>According to the filing, Hameed Khalid Darweesh was granted a special immigrant visa on Jan. 20, the same day Mr. Trump was sworn in. He worked with the United States in Iraq in a variety of jobs — as an interpreter, engineer and contractor — over the course of roughly a decade. This is completely insane. Not only is it a blatant violation of human rights and our treaties regarding refugees, but this is going to be a major blow to our national security. The promise of American citizenship is one of the major driving factors for informants and interpreters around the world that help our armed forces. Trump seems hellbent on making life miserable for anyone tasked with actually protecting our country.
- WildUtah 10y ago
  So we should invite traitors and collaborators into the USA? Those are the last people we should allow to join us here. That's the thing about cheaters: They cheated on their last partner with you and they'll cheat on you soon enough. If we'd keep our noses out of nation building where it's none of our business we'd need a whole lot less of these people. Let that be a lesson to us the next time a fool president wants to invade a new Iraq.
  - countrybama24 10y ago
    These people have sacrificed more for our country than most Americans. They are some of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet, because they know how horrible other governments can be and they have worked incredibly hard to get to America, unlike native born Americans. Calling them cheaters for helping us kill terrorists is comical. They are heroes.
  - stannol 10y ago
    What an unbelievably stupid thing to say. Traitors from war-torn, corrupt and authoritarian countries become traitors by risking their (and their families) lives to fight for the right values not because they are cheaters! The countries that are built on these values should support them as much as they can.
  - gotchange 10y ago
coldcode 10y ago
Orders such as these will cause people in foreign countries to no longer support or trust US soldiers. Imagine what a storm this will cause when troops start dying because they have no intelligence as to who is friend or foe and what the situation is. Anything you do to people in the US risks having the same happen to Americans in general and not just soldiers in other countries. Note Google is trying to get their people who happened to be traveling in those countries home as soon as possible. I also find it amusing that none of the countries Trump does business in are affected.
hedora 10y ago
Protesters should swarm these airports until the prisoners are released.
- hedora 10y ago
  Instead of down voting, could you present a better idea? Spouses of American citizens on legal visas are being indefinitely detained without any cause. So are members of the US government. They did nothing at all to provoke this reaction from the authorities. Some of them even actively "kept their heads down". If people do nothing about this now, where will it end?
baytrailcat 10y ago
To me, what is striking is that USA has always been glimmering example of a civilized society. An asymptote, if you will, of the curve of human progress. It showed other countries what laws are logical ("self-evident"), what is the best way to run an economy and what is the distilled essence of western civilization. Sure, when you look closer, you can always find flaws and internal-struggles. But the principles were always there as an inspiration. Regardless of the geopolitical situations, it is fair to say that USA is rapidly reaching a point where it can no longer lay a claim on those principles. And I am not claiming that this happened on Nov 8, 2016. This has been happening steadily since the beginning of this century (Iraq War, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay etc.). And simultaneously it comes at a point where the long term sustainability of its other important contribution (free-market capitalism) is brought to question. We are really living in an inflection point in history (Like end of European imperialism, fall of communism etc.)
- laretluval 10y ago
  > An asymptote, if you will, of the curve of human progress. The curve of progress according to one faction, which it turns out has a lot less popular support than it thought.
  - baytrailcat 10y ago
    Sure, ethno-nationalism has a claim on this mantle. But is it curving it towards the right direction? Remember, we have been here multiple times before (like the pre World War I world order). We had to suffer through a lot of carnage to reach here. As a species, we reduced the total human suffering, improved our lives, developed technology to overcome our ailments, began to adopt reason over organized religion and we are almost figuring out how to live with each other in spite of our genetic and cultural differences. Centuries from now, when we are cruising towards stars (if we are lucky enough) to spread through the galaxy, can we look back and say that this step was in the right direction? I don't think so. I think it of as more as an over-correction, an exploitation of the flaws in the system which unfortunately will bring more bloodshed and suffering to get through before getting replaced.

137 points by bko 10y ago

gorbachev 10y ago

It's amazing to see policy making without any planning whatsoever.

h_r 10y ago
The fact that he said something about this topic during the campaign probably does count as planning on his eyes. Consequences can be dealt with on the fly.
hedora 10y ago
This seems well planned to me. We were told it was coming (not in this exact form) throughout the campaign. Trump has also promised to arrest millions of immigrants in the next four years. He has to start small. CBP already operates in the constitution free "border zone". It's a perfect way to normalize larger scale unlawful detentions in the public eye and set legal precedents. Put another way, Oakland and San Francisco airports are almost certainly illeglly detaining innocent people that are in the country legally right now. If the feds started by pulling people with visas and green cards from desks in Silicon Valley or SF there would be riots in the streets. I am talking about two groups of people within 50 miles of each other, which (until the executive order) had the same legal status. This is not OK, and it is naive to think it is poorly planned. (I hope you're right though, and trump tweets an apology/release order this weekend.)

thogenhaven 10y ago

This is most of all a story about instability in Western societies. In my 34 years on this planet, I cannot remember any time where one would enter a plane with a valid visa, only to realuze everything changed so swiftly. I'm concerned that this will be the trend many places in society now.

xyzzy4 10y ago
I saw one instance where someone was granted a fiancé visa, only to be turned away at the border because they answered "yes" for the question of having smoked pot once on one of the visa application forms. Unfortunately a visa does not guarantee access into the United States. You can stil be turned away or detained at the border.
XorNot 10y ago
If working as intended, this action by the executive in the US should prompt a swift reprisal from Congress, since the executive issuing secret orders to security forces which then go into effect (timed to avoid scrutiny before they happen) is massive overreach and enormously destabilizing. Unfortunately, Congresspeople on both sides seem to have lacked a spine for the better part of a decade.
grappler 10y ago
Just imagine what classified orders are being worked on, or already signed, right now. I wouldn't hold out much hope for any of the limits that have been in place regarding surveillance, foreign or domestic, on citizens or noncitizens.
- hedora 10y ago
  Yeah, based on public executive orders (like no privacy unless you have a green card or are a citizen), I've given up on the idea of privacy from law enforcement at work. There are people with visas in ear shot, and on many of the pull requests I send out. Presumably it will be slurped real time into some NSA data center. Thanks to that thing Obama did in the 11th hour, it will then be streamed back to local law enforcement for data mining.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

zymhan 10y ago

This is disgusting. To show such blatant disregard for civil liberties and human rights and a dozen other pinnacles of developed/western/first world countries is an affront to what we've accomplished and supposedly learned from the past. I mean seriously, barring refugees on Holocaust Rememberance day, and then only describing those killed as "victims", seems like it should be a very, very dark SNL skit.

polotics 10y ago
Trump is putting the lives of soldiers who have to rely on these interpreters and local fixers at risk. It's now clear to anyone in Irak that whoever works for or help the Americans takes risks on all sides, and will not be supported. Just grrrrreat.
- rl3 10y ago
  I found this article very informative: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/28/trump-refugee-rule-block-military-interpreters-us.html http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/28/trump-refugee-... The tl:dr is that interpreters are already vetted to an extreme degree before they can receive visas under the SIV program, and that this order may in fact cost lives.
- williamle8300 10y ago
  We never should have been in Iraq or Afghanistan in the first place. Now that we have been for years, of course, we need human resources like interpreters and contractors just to maintain this nation-building crusade... but why are we maintaining it? America used to have a neutral stance like Switzerland towards foreign affairs, but in the last half century we increasingly evolved into a world police. Remember that before we entered WWII, we knew about Germany's injustices towards its neighbors but we kept our noses out of it––until they bombed Pearl Harbor. We used to have a solemn regard towards a nation's sovereignty. That needs to return to America. Trump's immigration executive order is the first step towards minding our own business and building up our nation via industry & innovation by American citizens.

mozumder 10y ago

Banning helpless refugees tells you more about the quality of Americans that feel threatened by them than it does the refugees themselves. The Trump supporters really are making themselves look like weak fools when they do something as pathetic as this. America needs to rid of these Trump people as soon as possible. Edit: As a reminder, refugees are innocent, while the Trump people are actually malicious. Nothing wrong with being punitive towards harmful and dangerous people.

tabeth 10y ago
This attitude is scary to be honest. I assume you don't see the irony in your comment.
- mozumder 10y ago
  Refugees are innocent. The Trump people are actually malicious. Nothing wrong with being punitive towards harmful and dangerous people.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
gotchange 10y ago
I don't think that it's fair to ascribe all the ideals and values in the policies championed by Trump to all of his supporters. Some of his supporters are pure evil and they don't hide it and they're not even satisfied by what he's doing and asking for more extremist measures like including all Muslim-majority countries on that list, and some of them are actually fooled by his economic demagoguery and platitudes and just want to get back to earning a decent living and screw everything else. So, painting all of his supporters with the same brush is counterproductive.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  I think its reasonable to hold them responsible for his reprehensible policies as that is what he promised during his campaign.

Cursuviam 10y ago

And students too. :P

becarefulyo 10y ago

This is absolutely ridiculous. Nationalism needs to be nipped at the bud before it spirals out of control. These orders should not be followed. Nuremberg defense doesn't hold up.

wheelerwj 10y ago
It's a little late for that. We have a real fight on our hands.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I was just thinking the same. This breed of nationalism has been steeping for some time. Likely before 9/11, but that was when it really started taking off.
throwawayish 10y ago
Remind me, who exactly voted the narcissistic nationalist into the executive office controlling the worlds largest surveillance and secret service/police apparatus? Small Government is a nice, and good, idea, but history shows us that neither surveillance apparatus (pl.) nor secret police (pl.) relinquish power, ever, within existing in the same continuum of legitimation (ie. state). There has been no previous instance where either were reduced; they only grow until chopped off entirely. It's an infestation of the state. There is only one - proven - cure. (And I think it's naïve to assume that those who built and grow these structures are not aware of this)
- becarefulyo 10y ago
  Not me. You're right though, the biggest problem is all the people cheering this on. I read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and this seems to be escalating even faster.
- gotchange 10y ago
  > Small Government is a nice, and good, idea, but history shows us that neither surveillance apparatus (pl.) nor secret police (pl.) relinquish power, ever, within existing in the same continuum of legitimation (ie. state). There has been no previous instance where either were reduced; they only grow until chopped off entirely. Is there a book or article that I can read about this point? I'd really appreciate it if you could show me a few examples.

wheelerwj 10y ago

> "Mr. President... Call Mr. Trump." Having been detained by CBP several times I can see the smug look on this officers face. Like, "It's not my policy but I'm happy to do my job." You see, this is the biggest problem that no one is talking about. Sure, these policies (mass surveillance, unlawful detention, violation of human rights) are handed down by edict by a powerful faction at the top of the food chain, but they are enforced by every day people. People against people, that's what this is about. Its our friends, our colleagues, and neighbors that are doing this. People, the people who have these jobs, have the moral right to resist these policies. They must fight their supervisors or they must resign if they cannot fight. We as a society have to agree that we won't mindlessly follow such ignorant leaders. Do you know why we still hunt down Nazi's 80 years later? Because "I'm just doing what I'm told" isn't a good excuse.

throwawayish 10y ago
I suspect this might be something people outside Germany or Europe are unaware of but > Do you know why we still hunt down Nazi's 80 years later? is actually a thing. There are still warrants out; Nazis (without the "Neo" part) are still arrested and convicted from time to time. Although I suspect this will come to an end soon, since people tend to die of old age now. Iirc some of the more recent trials ended with a conviction to incarceration, but no actual incarceration due to old age / medical issues.
gotchange 10y ago
That's why I'm in favor of the RW libertarians view of big government and how it's in the best interest of society to have as much small a government as possible to avoid situations like these as large bureaucracies tend to corrupt over time and when they turn evil, they hurt innocent people that come close to them.
- otalp 10y ago
  The original Libertarians were left wing anti-government anarchists. The word was appropriated by the far right in the US, and The ones today are Ayn Rand fanatics- the likes of Paul Ryan, who are anti-labour and pro-business. Reducing the power of the government - an institution in which people have some kind of say in - while allowing corporations to flourish - institutions where citizens have absolutely no say in - leads to oligarchy. There are interesting approaches to reducing government size from left-liberterains(Libertarian socialist and Anarchists) but they are not mainstream in the US, which has shifted so far right over the last few decades that Eisenhower would in many policy matters be considered a far-left unelectable today.

csomar 10y ago

Imo, this is another show of why politics doesn't work. Or maybe why politics is not efficient. Somebody does something (an act of terrorism). Instead of fixing the issue at its core, a politician will, instead, do something that is completely unrelated, random and inefficient but that looks like he is doing real work (banning muslims from entry). A terrorist going on a killing spree is not different than a destabilized white American 30-something going on a killing spree. Both are destabilized (mentally) but for different reasons. Most people would not care because it doesn't affect their bottom line. Banning muslims isn't an issue for your average American family, even if it doesn't stop terrorism.

becarefulyo 10y ago
Spot on. In his ABC interview, he cited San Bernardino and 9/11 as reasons for this ban. The attackers in San Bernardino were a US citizen and Pakastani and the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia. Neither covered by this ban.
- gorbachev 10y ago
  He also left countries where he has investments out of the ban. That's...interesting.
zo1 10y ago
This is the same line of reasoning that prevents valid use of profiling. Until you can clearly identify and prove the "issue" that you mention then we have to make do with half-solutions that may be the wrong answer in some instances. As an engineer/problem-solver I find this perfectly logical and reasonable. You can't just throw your arms up and say "sorry" when it could very well mean people dying and the dying of people is exactly what you're trying to prevent. If this blanket policy saves even one life I would find it justified. Either way... It doesn't sound like the two individuals in the article are actual persecuted refugees. The article doesn't elaborate on that. We're just expected to assume that. But we're told what amazing humans they are and how much they helped the US. That sounds more like a dishing out of green card favors in return for services.

aphextron 10y ago

>According to the filing, Hameed Khalid Darweesh was granted a special immigrant visa on Jan. 20, the same day Mr. Trump was sworn in. He worked with the United States in Iraq in a variety of jobs — as an interpreter, engineer and contractor — over the course of roughly a decade. This is completely insane. Not only is it a blatant violation of human rights and our treaties regarding refugees, but this is going to be a major blow to our national security. The promise of American citizenship is one of the major driving factors for informants and interpreters around the world that help our armed forces. Trump seems hellbent on making life miserable for anyone tasked with actually protecting our country.

WildUtah 10y ago
So we should invite traitors and collaborators into the USA? Those are the last people we should allow to join us here. That's the thing about cheaters: They cheated on their last partner with you and they'll cheat on you soon enough. If we'd keep our noses out of nation building where it's none of our business we'd need a whole lot less of these people. Let that be a lesson to us the next time a fool president wants to invade a new Iraq.
- countrybama24 10y ago
  These people have sacrificed more for our country than most Americans. They are some of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet, because they know how horrible other governments can be and they have worked incredibly hard to get to America, unlike native born Americans. Calling them cheaters for helping us kill terrorists is comical. They are heroes.
- stannol 10y ago
  What an unbelievably stupid thing to say. Traitors from war-torn, corrupt and authoritarian countries become traitors by risking their (and their families) lives to fight for the right values not because they are cheaters! The countries that are built on these values should support them as much as they can.
- gotchange 10y ago

coldcode 10y ago

Orders such as these will cause people in foreign countries to no longer support or trust US soldiers. Imagine what a storm this will cause when troops start dying because they have no intelligence as to who is friend or foe and what the situation is. Anything you do to people in the US risks having the same happen to Americans in general and not just soldiers in other countries. Note Google is trying to get their people who happened to be traveling in those countries home as soon as possible. I also find it amusing that none of the countries Trump does business in are affected.

hedora 10y ago

Protesters should swarm these airports until the prisoners are released.

hedora 10y ago
Instead of down voting, could you present a better idea? Spouses of American citizens on legal visas are being indefinitely detained without any cause. So are members of the US government. They did nothing at all to provoke this reaction from the authorities. Some of them even actively "kept their heads down". If people do nothing about this now, where will it end?

baytrailcat 10y ago

To me, what is striking is that USA has always been glimmering example of a civilized society. An asymptote, if you will, of the curve of human progress. It showed other countries what laws are logical ("self-evident"), what is the best way to run an economy and what is the distilled essence of western civilization. Sure, when you look closer, you can always find flaws and internal-struggles. But the principles were always there as an inspiration. Regardless of the geopolitical situations, it is fair to say that USA is rapidly reaching a point where it can no longer lay a claim on those principles. And I am not claiming that this happened on Nov 8, 2016. This has been happening steadily since the beginning of this century (Iraq War, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay etc.). And simultaneously it comes at a point where the long term sustainability of its other important contribution (free-market capitalism) is brought to question. We are really living in an inflection point in history (Like end of European imperialism, fall of communism etc.)

laretluval 10y ago
> An asymptote, if you will, of the curve of human progress. The curve of progress according to one faction, which it turns out has a lot less popular support than it thought.
- baytrailcat 10y ago
  Sure, ethno-nationalism has a claim on this mantle. But is it curving it towards the right direction? Remember, we have been here multiple times before (like the pre World War I world order). We had to suffer through a lot of carnage to reach here. As a species, we reduced the total human suffering, improved our lives, developed technology to overcome our ailments, began to adopt reason over organized religion and we are almost figuring out how to live with each other in spite of our genetic and cultural differences. Centuries from now, when we are cruising towards stars (if we are lucky enough) to spread through the galaxy, can we look back and say that this step was in the right direction? I don't think so. I think it of as more as an over-correction, an exploitation of the flaws in the system which unfortunately will bring more bloodshed and suffering to get through before getting replaced.