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The ones who were engaged in tribal wars of conquest with each other before Europeans ever showed up?

by notpc 10y ago

DannyBee 10y ago
That seems like a dodge to me. Let's stick with the point you tried to make: Was the immigration of everyone else done only in their best interest? (clearly not, since they were almost all killed). Or was instead done in the interest of others? Could you clearly delineate the point for me when it became okay to change immigration policy from the former to the latter? Was it right after your ancestors got here, or sometime before? Was it before or after we put the big statue in ny harbor memorializing the former?
- notpc 10y ago
  That wasn't immigration. That was the dislocation of one people by another. 90% of Indians died shortly after first contact because of smallpox, which moved faster than the Europeans themselves did. And of course, if the Indians had their informed choice, they would never have wanted Europeans to come. But they didn't have the power to do anything about it. This world doesn't care about right and wrong, only weak and strong. Edit: Actually you're dead wrong. There was no immigration essentially from the start of the republic until the late 1800s, and again almost none between 1920 and 1950. And until the 60s, it was only from European societies for the most part.
  - DannyBee 10y ago
    I notice, again, that you've decided to focus only on the one rhetorical flourish, and not answer any of the questions to which the answer clearly is "actually, our immigration policy has never been like that in the history of the country, and the only reason i'm here is because of that. But it's time to turn it off because i've already got mine".
    - denzil_correa 10y ago
      > "actually, our immigration policy has never been like that in the history of the country, and the only reason i'm here is because of that. But it's time to turn it off because i've already got mine". You've hit the nail of the head and that part "I've got mine", is really what it is.
    - shard972 10y ago
      It's time to turn off immigration from countries that have cultures that actively conflict with western culture and it's values. As a homosexual, I don't want immigration from countries where 90% of the population think it's completely rational to jail and execute people for being gay.
    - notpc 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
  - hyperpape 10y ago
    There was plenty of German immigration between 1810 and the civil war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans#19th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans#19th_century Also, I have no idea why you think it relevant that they were European. Certainly Ben Franklin didn't: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-germans/48324/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-.... At the time of actual immigration, the majority opinion was not that Italians, Poles or Jews were desirable immigrants.
- losvedir 10y ago
  It's possible for immigration to be good at some times and bad at others based on changing factors like the economy, supply and demand for labor, population, international relations, etc. I'm not going to take a position on whether we should be allowing more or less immigration now, but it feels to me like you're trying to trap OP in a logical contradiction that just isn't there.

The ones who were engaged in tribal wars of conquest with each other before Europeans ever showed up?

by notpc 10y ago

The ones who were engaged in tribal wars of conquest with each other before Europeans ever showed up?

That seems like a dodge to me. Let's stick with the point you tried to make: Was the immigration of everyone else done only in their best interest? (clearly not, since they were almost all killed). Or was instead done in the interest of others? Could you clearly delineate the point for me when it became okay to change immigration policy from the former to the latter? Was it right after your ancestors got here, or sometime before? Was it before or after we put the big statue in ny harbor memorializing the former?

notpc 10y ago
That wasn't immigration. That was the dislocation of one people by another. 90% of Indians died shortly after first contact because of smallpox, which moved faster than the Europeans themselves did. And of course, if the Indians had their informed choice, they would never have wanted Europeans to come. But they didn't have the power to do anything about it. This world doesn't care about right and wrong, only weak and strong. Edit: Actually you're dead wrong. There was no immigration essentially from the start of the republic until the late 1800s, and again almost none between 1920 and 1950. And until the 60s, it was only from European societies for the most part.
- DannyBee 10y ago
  I notice, again, that you've decided to focus only on the one rhetorical flourish, and not answer any of the questions to which the answer clearly is "actually, our immigration policy has never been like that in the history of the country, and the only reason i'm here is because of that. But it's time to turn it off because i've already got mine".
  - denzil_correa 10y ago
    > "actually, our immigration policy has never been like that in the history of the country, and the only reason i'm here is because of that. But it's time to turn it off because i've already got mine". You've hit the nail of the head and that part "I've got mine", is really what it is.
  - shard972 10y ago
    It's time to turn off immigration from countries that have cultures that actively conflict with western culture and it's values. As a homosexual, I don't want immigration from countries where 90% of the population think it's completely rational to jail and execute people for being gay.
  - notpc 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
- hyperpape 10y ago
  There was plenty of German immigration between 1810 and the civil war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans#19th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans#19th_century Also, I have no idea why you think it relevant that they were European. Certainly Ben Franklin didn't: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-germans/48324/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2008/02/swarthy-.... At the time of actual immigration, the majority opinion was not that Italians, Poles or Jews were desirable immigrants.
losvedir 10y ago
It's possible for immigration to be good at some times and bad at others based on changing factors like the economy, supply and demand for labor, population, international relations, etc. I'm not going to take a position on whether we should be allowing more or less immigration now, but it feels to me like you're trying to trap OP in a logical contradiction that just isn't there.