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> I'm not optimistic, but I hope that the Trump era finally puts an end to the illusions people had about tech giants as a vehicle for social progress. I hope

> I'm not optimistic, but I hope that the Trump era finally puts an end to the illusions people had about tech giants as a vehicle for social progress. I hope so too. Even if corporations really were sincerely pursuing social progress, that would be bad. In a democratic society, social progress should not be determined by a small group of unaccountable organizations. Say what you will about governments pursuing social progress -- at least they are somewhat accountable and need to be elected. (Another potential upside of Trump's election: hopefully fewer people who believe that voting never changes anything because the establishment always wins.) Nobody outside of a corporation's board has control over who ends up in charge.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
The shareholders control the board, who is actually in charge of the business. Officers are appointed managers acting on behalf of the board.
- mcguire 10y ago
  Theoretically, yes. In practice, not so much.
Angostura 10y ago
> Even if corporations really were sincerely pursuing social progress, that would be bad. In a democratic society, social progress should not be determined by a small group of unaccountable organizations. I disagree. Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations - but if such want to get out there and run their businesses in an, progressive manner that benefits society as a whole, I'm going to cheer them on.
- twblalock 10y ago
  > Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations - but if such want to get out there and run their businesses in an, progressive manner that benefits society as a whole, I'm going to cheer them on. What would you think if big companies like Google and Apple pursued a conservative agenda? What if they were against same-sex marriage or legal abortion? The sword cuts both ways. There is no guarantee that corporations will always be on the right side of the culture wars, but they have enormous power. It's not a good idea to support corporate power because it happens to be on your side this time.
  - ljw1001 10y ago
    The problem is the excessive power of corporations, rather than how they conduct their business. The combination of publicity, lobbying, and donations gives them too much control for a healthy democracy
  - Angostura 10y ago
    > What would you think if big companies like Google and Apple pursued a conservative agenda? What if they were against same-sex marriage or legal abortion? I would think it was bad and would think less of them. That's why I said 'Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations' We shuldn't depend on good things happening because corporations do them. But by gum, if corporations do good things I will applaud them - and if they do bad things I will criticise them.
redial 10y ago
Laws make corporations accountable. Social "progress" is (should be) not the domain of the government but of everyone.
- MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
  They could be made accountable in theory, but in practice they are held to much lower standards of accountability than either the government or individual persons.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago

The shareholders control the board, who is actually in charge of the business. Officers are appointed managers acting on behalf of the board.

mcguire 10y ago
Theoretically, yes. In practice, not so much.

Angostura 10y ago

> Even if corporations really were sincerely pursuing social progress, that would be bad. In a democratic society, social progress should not be determined by a small group of unaccountable organizations. I disagree. Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations - but if such want to get out there and run their businesses in an, progressive manner that benefits society as a whole, I'm going to cheer them on.

twblalock 10y ago
> Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations - but if such want to get out there and run their businesses in an, progressive manner that benefits society as a whole, I'm going to cheer them on. What would you think if big companies like Google and Apple pursued a conservative agenda? What if they were against same-sex marriage or legal abortion? The sword cuts both ways. There is no guarantee that corporations will always be on the right side of the culture wars, but they have enormous power. It's not a good idea to support corporate power because it happens to be on your side this time.
- ljw1001 10y ago
  The problem is the excessive power of corporations, rather than how they conduct their business. The combination of publicity, lobbying, and donations gives them too much control for a healthy democracy
- Angostura 10y ago
  > What would you think if big companies like Google and Apple pursued a conservative agenda? What if they were against same-sex marriage or legal abortion? I would think it was bad and would think less of them. That's why I said 'Progress shouldn't be dependent on a small group of unaccountable organisations' We shuldn't depend on good things happening because corporations do them. But by gum, if corporations do good things I will applaud them - and if they do bad things I will criticise them.

redial 10y ago

Laws make corporations accountable. Social "progress" is (should be) not the domain of the government but of everyone.

MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
They could be made accountable in theory, but in practice they are held to much lower standards of accountability than either the government or individual persons.