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> "We need to do X" and they say "Here is product Y that connects to product Z, but you need to write your own connector." And each product has it's own pricing

> "We need to do X" and they say "Here is product Y that connects to product Z, but you need to write your own connector." And each product has it's own pricing structure (one by CPU usage, one with flat fees, one based on throughput) so working out total cost is a nightmare. Then you have to hire around those techs, project manage the build of the infrastructure, etc. At that point you start to ask "Why are we using them again?" This is a feature(?) of AWS. Google Cloud provides fully built solutions for majority of use cases. AWS provides nuts and bolts and tell you to integrate them.

reggieband 10y ago
> Google Cloud provides fully built solutions for majority of use cases. That is not my experience. In fact, you just need to look at the Google Cloud documentation solution use cases. For example: https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-analysis-telemetry https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-anal... (chosen more or less at random). You need: * Cloud pub/sub * Cloud dataflow * Big Query * Cloud datalab They don't stitch all that together for you. Nor do they have a good way of calculating how much each of those services will cost when used in conjunction with each other.
- obulpathi 10y ago
  If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics: https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/ https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/ If you want a customizable solution, you connect the tools. Pub/Sub for streaming, Dataflow for processing data, Big Query for Data Analytics (Warehousing), Datalab is your development environment. Its hard for a single solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why they suggest tools. Care to share what a better technology stack looks like? I would love to know if there are better alternatives for services like Google App Engine, Google Cloud Load Balancer, BigQuery, Pub/Sub, Dataflow, TensorFlow Cloud ML, Container Engine (Kubernetes), Stack Driver, ... Speaking about cost, its all flat rate, with usage discounts (the more you use, the more discount you get) and there are no upfront payments / reservations / locking / hourly billings (like AWS)
  - reggieband 10y ago
    > If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics I'm not at all, that example was pulled at random as an example. > Its hard for a single solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why they suggest tools. It would be hard to describe just how custom of a solution my company would need. My company certainly likes to do things in a unique way. However there is a huge grey area between "here is a specific product that doesn't quite fit your needs" and "here are the blocks you need to build a custom solution on your own". That grey area is filled with money. > I would love to know if there are better alternatives for services like ... Don't underestimate the ability of large enterprise to roll their own. It isn't like Google is the only company that can build a message queue or a load balancer. Nor are they the only game in town selling them. This is a time to remember: The customer is always right. You and I may think that "Google is the best" but my manager wants what my manager wants. We may select a lesser solution simply because the support is significantly better. And that support should be vertically integrated. If we have support for pub sub, support for big query but not support for the integration between them ... that is a drawback. > Speaking about cost, its all flat rate Not really. For example data flow is based on the size of machine you are running (plus some extra percentage for the service), pub sub is based on number of events, big query is based on query time + egress, etc. I probably still have the spreadsheet I used to try to get a handle on costs kicking around somewhere. "Flat rate" does not describe the monstrosity that is that spreadsheet. I totally understand that some people don't understand the enterprise mentality. I'm not trying to defend it - maybe just give a small view into it. Now that I live in it, I may not agree with it, but I understand it. Google doesn't.
    - solipsism 10y ago
      Now that I live in it, I may not agree with it, but I understand it. Google doesn't. I love the hubris of statements like this. Google makes decisions based on many factors, many of which you have no idea about. The idea that they're leaving an incredible amount of money on the table because they just lack all your enterprise experience is ludicrous.
      - reggieband 10y ago
scurvy 10y ago
Ironically, that's the way that Microsoft used to operate. They were very big on providing the platform and API, then insisting that partners built the solutions. That was back in the Gates and Ballmer era. I guess that they've learned from that major mistake.
nl 10y ago
I have a perfect example for how little Google understands Enterprise. This issue[1] affects almost every enterprise developer using this product (the original AppEngine) and has been open since 2008 (Nearly 10 years!). I provided a (awful!) work around in 2010[2] for the Java version, and there are similarly dreadful hacks for the Python version. It would be trivial for Google to implement one of these fixes. Google just doesn't care at all. [1] https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=544 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5... [2] https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=544#c11 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5...

reggieband 10y ago

> Google Cloud provides fully built solutions for majority of use cases. That is not my experience. In fact, you just need to look at the Google Cloud documentation solution use cases. For example: https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-analysis-telemetry https://cloud.google.com/solutions/mobile/mobile-gaming-anal... (chosen more or less at random). You need: * Cloud pub/sub * Cloud dataflow * Big Query * Cloud datalab They don't stitch all that together for you. Nor do they have a good way of calculating how much each of those services will cost when used in conjunction with each other.

obulpathi 10y ago
If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics: https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/ https://firebase.google.com/docs/analytics/ If you want a customizable solution, you connect the tools. Pub/Sub for streaming, Dataflow for processing data, Big Query for Data Analytics (Warehousing), Datalab is your development environment. Its hard for a single solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why they suggest tools. Care to share what a better technology stack looks like? I would love to know if there are better alternatives for services like Google App Engine, Google Cloud Load Balancer, BigQuery, Pub/Sub, Dataflow, TensorFlow Cloud ML, Container Engine (Kubernetes), Stack Driver, ... Speaking about cost, its all flat rate, with usage discounts (the more you use, the more discount you get) and there are no upfront payments / reservations / locking / hourly billings (like AWS)
- reggieband 10y ago
  > If you are looking for a solution for mobile analytics I'm not at all, that example was pulled at random as an example. > Its hard for a single solution to serve 100% of customer needs. That why they suggest tools. It would be hard to describe just how custom of a solution my company would need. My company certainly likes to do things in a unique way. However there is a huge grey area between "here is a specific product that doesn't quite fit your needs" and "here are the blocks you need to build a custom solution on your own". That grey area is filled with money. > I would love to know if there are better alternatives for services like ... Don't underestimate the ability of large enterprise to roll their own. It isn't like Google is the only company that can build a message queue or a load balancer. Nor are they the only game in town selling them. This is a time to remember: The customer is always right. You and I may think that "Google is the best" but my manager wants what my manager wants. We may select a lesser solution simply because the support is significantly better. And that support should be vertically integrated. If we have support for pub sub, support for big query but not support for the integration between them ... that is a drawback. > Speaking about cost, its all flat rate Not really. For example data flow is based on the size of machine you are running (plus some extra percentage for the service), pub sub is based on number of events, big query is based on query time + egress, etc. I probably still have the spreadsheet I used to try to get a handle on costs kicking around somewhere. "Flat rate" does not describe the monstrosity that is that spreadsheet. I totally understand that some people don't understand the enterprise mentality. I'm not trying to defend it - maybe just give a small view into it. Now that I live in it, I may not agree with it, but I understand it. Google doesn't.
  - solipsism 10y ago
    Now that I live in it, I may not agree with it, but I understand it. Google doesn't. I love the hubris of statements like this. Google makes decisions based on many factors, many of which you have no idea about. The idea that they're leaving an incredible amount of money on the table because they just lack all your enterprise experience is ludicrous.
    - reggieband 10y ago

scurvy 10y ago

Ironically, that's the way that Microsoft used to operate. They were very big on providing the platform and API, then insisting that partners built the solutions. That was back in the Gates and Ballmer era. I guess that they've learned from that major mistake.

nl 10y ago

I have a perfect example for how little Google understands Enterprise. This issue[1] affects almost every enterprise developer using this product (the original AppEngine) and has been open since 2008 (Nearly 10 years!). I provided a (awful!) work around in 2010[2] for the Java version, and there are similarly dreadful hacks for the Python version. It would be trivial for Google to implement one of these fixes. Google just doesn't care at all. [1] https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=544 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5... [2] https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=544#c11 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=5...