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That's snarky and ignorant. I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. The Internet blocking never effected my ability to deliver quality IT solutions to my custome

That's snarky and ignorant. I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. The Internet blocking never effected my ability to deliver quality IT solutions to my customers.

jacquesm 16y ago
There you go again, injecting reason in to an otherwise entertaining argument not hindered by facts and figures. The 'red scare' seems to be alive and well.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  A propos snark and ignorance, my wife is Hungarian, and as my other reply makes clear, this is less "red scare" and more "lack of connectivity scare". If you want to imply that all Americans live in fear of Communism, I can find you plenty that meet your prejudices, but painting us all with the same brush is pretty much calling the kettle black.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I have lots of American friends and very few of them would fall for the 'red scare' stuff, but I'm actually surprised to see so much of it in a HN thread. Lack of connectivity is a problem, but it is a technical problem. The suggestion that someone in China would go to jail or worse for asking a question is what got me irritated. It's simply misinformation and fear mongering. If you went all out against the government as a foreigner I still think they'd just run you out of the country, rather than jail you to avoid a diplomatic incident. The people that are most at risk in China from the government are the dissidents that openly confront the government about various issues and the people that chip away at the powerbase from below. Of course it is absolutely reprehensible that free speech is not protected and that there are so many corrupt officials there, but the problems are rather deep seated and for the most part it will be the Chinese people that will one day solve this. Compared to the implosion of Russia and the abject poverty as well as the rise of the Mafia that you can directly trace back to the 'vlasti' in the former Soviet Union China is doing reasonably well, they could have done a lot worse. They also could have done significantly better than they're doing today but for that to happen they first have to get rid of the old guard and they're not going to let go without a real fight. The play the ruling class in China is making is one where they try to give the people just enough bread and games that they won't rise up against them in the longer term. It's a fine line they're riding and I think in the long run they'll lose. Time will tell. Anybody that goes to China to live there from the West has my blessing, they're the people that are entrepreneurial at heart, seeking out new frontiers and gambling their fortune on it.
    - Vivtek 16y ago
      Ah. So when I said, "And apparently don't rely on a working Internet," and you said, "Red scare," you were responding to everybody else on the thread, and not me. Sorry for the confusion.
Vivtek 16y ago
It is, in fact, both snarky and ignorant, but to tell the truth, I'd love to spend some time in China, but I worry about connectivity. Since the only news I ever hear about the Internet in China is bad, what am I supposed to think? That maybe it would just be OK? I suppose having functional health care might make up for spotty connectivity. Actually - could you email me? I'd like to get an idea of cost-of-living in different cities in China. I'm a technical translator (and do some sysadmin) and so continual connectivity is drop-dead necessary for my livelihood, but about a year or two from now I'd really like to go to China for a year or two to poke around and get to know it.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > I suppose having functional health care might make up for spotty connectivity. Tough choice. Somewhere in the 'hackers hobbies' threads someone details that he had to pay $100K out of pocket for medical expenses. As for the connectivity, simply set up a VPN on a box that you alone own and use and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Super74 16y ago
I cannot imagine what "quality" IT solutions you sold over here. Where did you get your HW and SW from, the IT malls run by teenagers? Internet blocking not a problem? I guess you don't read much online. It amazes me what I cannot get access to without my VPN. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. But, I guess you are back in the safety and security of the good ol' USA, so it ain't your problem anymore.
- jimmyjim 16y ago
  > No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. I think that may be very much debatable. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0 could also mean less distractions to get real, technical work done.
- jhancock 16y ago
  I understand your current frustration. If you expect everyplace you go to be just like home, your bound to be frustrated. As far as "quality" IT solutions go. Well, lets see here: I helped the Shanghai gov make an e-workflow solution for procurement. This cut down on costs and kickbacks a lot. I helped several Chinese banks become online banks. Some of my middleware code processes billions in transactions without breaking a sweat. I'm sorry you don't feel safe and secure in China. I was at Home Depot last week with my son. About an hour after I left, a guy shot and killed another man on isle 13...same isle we were on. I never feared for the safety of my family in Shanghai.
  - felipe 16y ago
    I lived in Mountain View (California -- where Google is located) and I had to call the police twice because I heard gun shots over the creek behind my apt complex. In China I go to the ATM at 2am and it's totally safe.
    - bertm 16y ago
      "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Ben F

That's snarky and ignorant. I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. The Internet blocking never effected my ability to deliver quality IT solutions to my customers.

jacquesm 16y ago

There you go again, injecting reason in to an otherwise entertaining argument not hindered by facts and figures. The 'red scare' seems to be alive and well.

Vivtek 16y ago
A propos snark and ignorance, my wife is Hungarian, and as my other reply makes clear, this is less "red scare" and more "lack of connectivity scare". If you want to imply that all Americans live in fear of Communism, I can find you plenty that meet your prejudices, but painting us all with the same brush is pretty much calling the kettle black.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I have lots of American friends and very few of them would fall for the 'red scare' stuff, but I'm actually surprised to see so much of it in a HN thread. Lack of connectivity is a problem, but it is a technical problem. The suggestion that someone in China would go to jail or worse for asking a question is what got me irritated. It's simply misinformation and fear mongering. If you went all out against the government as a foreigner I still think they'd just run you out of the country, rather than jail you to avoid a diplomatic incident. The people that are most at risk in China from the government are the dissidents that openly confront the government about various issues and the people that chip away at the powerbase from below. Of course it is absolutely reprehensible that free speech is not protected and that there are so many corrupt officials there, but the problems are rather deep seated and for the most part it will be the Chinese people that will one day solve this. Compared to the implosion of Russia and the abject poverty as well as the rise of the Mafia that you can directly trace back to the 'vlasti' in the former Soviet Union China is doing reasonably well, they could have done a lot worse. They also could have done significantly better than they're doing today but for that to happen they first have to get rid of the old guard and they're not going to let go without a real fight. The play the ruling class in China is making is one where they try to give the people just enough bread and games that they won't rise up against them in the longer term. It's a fine line they're riding and I think in the long run they'll lose. Time will tell. Anybody that goes to China to live there from the West has my blessing, they're the people that are entrepreneurial at heart, seeking out new frontiers and gambling their fortune on it.
  - Vivtek 16y ago
    Ah. So when I said, "And apparently don't rely on a working Internet," and you said, "Red scare," you were responding to everybody else on the thread, and not me. Sorry for the confusion.

Vivtek 16y ago

It is, in fact, both snarky and ignorant, but to tell the truth, I'd love to spend some time in China, but I worry about connectivity. Since the only news I ever hear about the Internet in China is bad, what am I supposed to think? That maybe it would just be OK? I suppose having functional health care might make up for spotty connectivity. Actually - could you email me? I'd like to get an idea of cost-of-living in different cities in China. I'm a technical translator (and do some sysadmin) and so continual connectivity is drop-dead necessary for my livelihood, but about a year or two from now I'd really like to go to China for a year or two to poke around and get to know it.

jacquesm 16y ago
> I suppose having functional health care might make up for spotty connectivity. Tough choice. Somewhere in the 'hackers hobbies' threads someone details that he had to pay $100K out of pocket for medical expenses. As for the connectivity, simply set up a VPN on a box that you alone own and use and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Super74 16y ago

I cannot imagine what "quality" IT solutions you sold over here. Where did you get your HW and SW from, the IT malls run by teenagers? Internet blocking not a problem? I guess you don't read much online. It amazes me what I cannot get access to without my VPN. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. But, I guess you are back in the safety and security of the good ol' USA, so it ain't your problem anymore.

jimmyjim 16y ago
> No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. I think that may be very much debatable. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0 could also mean less distractions to get real, technical work done.
jhancock 16y ago
I understand your current frustration. If you expect everyplace you go to be just like home, your bound to be frustrated. As far as "quality" IT solutions go. Well, lets see here: I helped the Shanghai gov make an e-workflow solution for procurement. This cut down on costs and kickbacks a lot. I helped several Chinese banks become online banks. Some of my middleware code processes billions in transactions without breaking a sweat. I'm sorry you don't feel safe and secure in China. I was at Home Depot last week with my son. About an hour after I left, a guy shot and killed another man on isle 13...same isle we were on. I never feared for the safety of my family in Shanghai.
- felipe 16y ago
  I lived in Mountain View (California -- where Google is located) and I had to call the police twice because I heard gun shots over the creek behind my apt complex. In China I go to the ATM at 2am and it's totally safe.
  - bertm 16y ago
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Ben F