11 ms·

Makes sense with Apple's current terrible product line setup. Both the retina MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro are much more niche than their last generation. Also

by jclardy 10y ago

Makes sense with Apple's current terrible product line setup. Both the retina MacBook and 2016 MacBook Pro are much more niche than their last generation. Also much more confusing as the MacBook Air successor is $500 more than the 13" Air was (The non-touchbar MacBook Pro is the spiritual successor to the air.) The true 13" Pro for 2016 is also $500 more than the last gen. The 12" MacBook is there...but it is a super niche product compared to the old Air or even the old Pro. It's performance is probably enough for most people, but at that point you could just buy a cheaper windows ultrabook and get similar or better performance for a much lower price. A huge market for Apple used to be college students. Now in 2017 what Apple laptop do they buy? an underpowered MacBook, or an overpriced pro? The best solution for most is buying an older model, but part of the appeal of buying a Mac is having the "latest" thing. Then you get to desktops...and there isn't much to say there. Apple just doesn't do them anymore. This is coming from someone that has used a Mac for the past 10 years and is typing on a 2016 pro. It is nice, but connectivity wise it is too far ahead of its time. In 1-2 years it will be fine, but right now it is just in early adopter territory.

WildUtah 10y ago
Mostly you're straight on, but the latest iMacs are among the best desktop PCs ever built. And they're still a good deal.
- jclardy 10y ago
  As far as AIO's go they are great, especially with the 5k display, but the main issue is that Apple doesn't spec bump them. It has been 472 days since the last iMac update and it will likely be at least until spring before we hear about an update. The main issue for me is that my laptop can now use Thunderbolt 3 accessories, but if I bought an iMac today I'd be stuck with thunderbolt 2 and no usb-c ports for the next 3 or so years that I would be using the machine.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Plus, I'm starting to be concerned with quality. Of the last 12 we've ordered 3 were DOA. They got replaced (one after over 2 months), but it wasn't a good experience. They aren't the dumpster fire that HP turned into on the low end for a while, but it is concerning as we have had to send machines back for recalls and fixes. It made for an interesting discussion when we decided a new lab was going to be Intel NUCs with LG 21x9 monitors over buying the outdated Macs. I am hoping for some sign Apple gets it together in 2017.
- bangonkeyboard 10y ago
  They're desktop PCs with midrange mobile GPUs and mobile RAM in an aging design so thermally compromised for the sake of thinness that it throttles the CPU and GPU at the first sign of either one approaching load while the revving fan efficiently draws in dust from its environment and deposits it irremovably onto the inside of the LCD. Fantastic display panel, though.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    > Fantastic display panel, though. That's why people buy them. It's not for the fastest CPU, it's definitely not for the GPU. It's because it has a fast enough CPU, a good enough GPU and goes all-in on the display.
    - tomne 10y ago
      Aren't they all glossy though? It looks better, but it's less practical whenever you get some sunlight.
      - jakobegger 10y ago
        I don't know what the iMacs are like, but the Macbooks have gotten pretty good anti-reflective coating, and they have pretty bright backlight. I prefer my glossy 2015 Macbook Pro to my anti-glare matte 2009 Macbook Pro, even in difficult lighting.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        If you're not used to it that can be jarring, but over time it's less of an issue. It's not something I notice unless I'm in a really bad spot and there's tons of light coming in. Good thing civilization invented this thing called blinds.
wodenokoto 10y ago
When I bought my current MacBook Pro (2009), it was the cheapest available amongst the updated pro's and it cost me $1.000 Apple simply don't offer that price point anymore. What used to be their low-price line of laptops - the MacBook, now starts at $1.300
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  Macbook Airs start at $999. Inflation adds about $120 to your $1k figure since 2009, too.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    The cheapest macbook air is a pretty weak laptop. It's very light on specs, compared to similar products. Yes - it's a good piece of kit - but maybe not worth the price. To get decent specs you have to pay a lot for Apple and I think it's becoming a problem.
    - myowncrapulence 10y ago
      Yeah I suspect they're starting to overcharge for their greatest strength: their software (macOS/Apple suite of apps). While I used to fawn over their minimal interface and simple UX, they've been adding a lot of unnecessary noise (siri, itunes forcing apple music, cluttering imessage with extensions) to their products. Definitely straying away from their status quo. Couple this with the fact they purposely force non-compatibility with anything non-apple and you have them becoming the new Microsoft. They're changing the things that make Apple great and it isn't worth the price anymore.
- endemic 10y ago
  Yeah, the value prop for the older (expandable) models was higher, as you could buy a reasonably-priced configuration then upgrade the RAM/HDD later. Now I'd need to spend $2k to price out a MBP with the same RAM/HDD as my 6 year old Mac.
monk_e_boy 10y ago
The Dell Alienware is so much better value. Amazing keyboard, run any game you like, super fast. I don't care about Win10 either way. It unlocks with facial recognition. It weighs more than my car (but I leave it on my desk 99% of the time) I just couldn't justify buying an Apple, as much as I wanted one. [edit] how the hell do I keep getting down voted for voicing my opinion? Lol. Nope. You're opinion is wrong, lose a point!
- tekklloneer 10y ago
  The flip side is that I needed a laptop to take with me to events, so I got a $750 dell xps13. If I were a college student, I'd be eyeing the $1200 version extremely hard versus an equivalent specced macbook pro at $1700 Or, the $750 version (which is what I have) versus a $1000 macbook that's significantly less powerful.
  - jerven 10y ago
    I just got myself a Dell precision 5510 with Ubuntu out of the box. A lot more capable than the most power full current macbook pro, weighs slightly less then the macbook pro from 2009 I am typing this on (moving files across to the new dell) After 16 years of Mac use I don't regret the switch.
    - bostand 10y ago
      Is this a 15" laptop? I recently realized that a modern 15" can be much more ergonomic yet almost as small and light as a 13" from a couple of years back.
      - iSnow 10y ago
        I've seen the precision 5510 and while I wouldn't say it is beautiful, it is really small for a 15". At 2Kg (with the large battery), it is still heavy, though.
        10y ago
Shivetya 10y ago
How Apple can leave the Mac Pro and Mini in their old configuration this long is beyond reason. 1000 days since its debut. Apple should be ashamed of this. Yet this company is operating like the days before Steve returned except this time there is no Steve to right it I expect the iMac to get a new chipset but I would like to see the Mac mini updated. Either update the Mac Pro or pull it.
- astrodust 10y ago
  They claim there's updates in the works. Here's hoping they push them out soon.
  - Joeri 10y ago
    With apple's recent behavior, the updates may not be upgrades, but trade-offs.
    - wmeredith 10y ago
      Seriously. I hope the updates aren't adding more retina screens to more surfaces I don't look at.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      I think they're having trouble finding their way in the post-PC world. Jobs knew this day was coming, that the PC would take a back seat to other devices, and brought up the analogy of Apple as BMW: The German company started out building motorcycles and while car sales soon vastly eclipsed that, they continued making really good bikes. It was a point of pride for them. If Apple goes back to that approach, of making Really Good Computers because they can, selling them not at a loss but at a respectable price for a respectable product, they might piss off fewer in their developer slash power user camp. I'm not sure this is their current strategy. The "Pro" monicker seems to be a little diluted in terms of meaning these days.
      - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
feross 10y ago
"If you want to write fast software, use a slow computer" - Dominic Tarr The 12" Macbook is the best computer I've ever owned. Switched to it from a 2014 Macbook Pro, and found it very easy to adjust. The only time it struggles a little bit is when I run Windows in VMware, on occasion. The biggest benefit of the Macbook 12" is that if software runs well on your computer, you know it's guaranteed to run extra buttery-smooth on other computers, which all have beefier CPUs and GPUs.
- michaelbuckbee 10y ago
  It's a good quote, but I feel it reflects a time when I didn't also need to run a stack of Redis, RabbitMQ, Postgres and webserver apps on my development box.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - efficax 10y ago
    I run literally all of that, and a couple of virtual machines on my 2016 rMB. It works fine. Sure, I can't play Doom 4. But if I need extra cycles for my development work, I spin up an ec2 instance.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Why local and not cloud/vps?
    - eecc 10y ago
      Why bother with a "pro" device at all, just get a chromebook and call it a day. Except there's a ton of premium stuff you can do more easily locally, and it's all stuff that hasn't been productized down to cheap web-office quality standards
      - jessaustin 10y ago
        Many of us have done just that...
edblarney 10y ago
I just bought a new Macbook, and I can say that it's a great product. Probably the best on the market. The problem I had was cost - they are over-priced. Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. My Mac has 200-ish G hard-drive which is f-ing retardedly small. They should all have 1T. But if you want those upgrades you have to pay massively more. I fundamentally believe the issue is simply price. If you could get a sub-$2K macbook with 16G RAM, good CPU and lots of disk-space - this conversation would never be had. I really do think Apple has the best boxes, but they are barely worth it, and just not worth it in many cases.
- iak8god 10y ago
  > Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. What boggles my mind is how many of them max out at 8G. I couldn't care less about CPU, and I'm flexible about storage, but 8G RAM is ridiculous. I'm currently using a couple of MS office apps and a web browser on my 2015 MBP and it's using 12G. I had a 2011 (or earlier, but I think it was the 2011) MBP that was happy to accept 16G. I'd gladly settle for a 12" MB for most work if I could just get >8G in one.
  - guitarbill 10y ago
    > but 8G RAM is ridiculous 8G RAM is not ridiculous. Statements like this just show how far out of touch people are. Many workloads benefit from more RAM. And for some it's a hard requirement (e.g. VMs), but web browsing and a bit of office is not one of them. This is why virtual memory/swap space is a thing - and with an SSD that's also not as horrible as it used to be.
    - iak8god 10y ago
      Web browsing and a bit of office is offered as an example of the lightest imaginable load for someone actually using a computer. My daily needs are much heavier than that. To offer a line of laptops with 8GB of RAM as the max in 2017 is ridiculous.
brianolson 10y ago
The world still isn't ready for a machine with only USB-C/thunderbolt-3. The aren't docks good enough with the right features or port combinations. The myriad of USB-C adaptors is only barely in place, some positions in that market have only one or two options without the depth of a mature market. USB-C/thunderbolt-3 _could be_ great, it could be the greatest docking connector yet, but until the right dock exists I shouldn't get a new MBP because I have a dozen legacy devices on my desk to connect. And everyone should hold off on the 12" Macbook until the next revision when it gets thunderbolt-3.
nessus42 10y ago
I have a Retina MacBook next to my sofa in the living room and a 27-inch Retina iMac with 16GB RAM on the desk in my study. At work I have a four year-old 27-inch iMac with all SSD storage and 16GB of RAM. It's still going strong, and I never think it's too slow for anything, despite developing in Scala, which has a slow compiler, and using Intellij or Eclipse, which are resource hogs. I love them all to death. It doesn't really matter to me whether I could have gotten something cheaper. If I did that, I'd have a little bit more money, and I'd be significantly less happy.
- hocuspocus 10y ago
  How do you deal with noise though? Scala and SBT can make the whole Apple product line noisy in my experience :)
  - nessus42 10y ago
    You mean make the fans blast? Well, they're not that loud. The building H/V airflow is usually a lot louder. And my Retina MacBook doesn't even have a fan. (Though I also don't do a lot of software development on it, I have done development on slower machines, and it wasn't terribly painful. Depending on what I was doing, of course.) I still remember the days of programming in C++ using C-front, and a compile would take 20 minutes. Being a gdb wizard was essential. These days, even with Scala, compilation is fast enough on a four-core iMac that debugging via print statements is easier than using a debugger. I guess I'm old enough that I just haven't gotten spoiled by expecting everything to be superfast. Though what does annoy me is how slow many websites are. Grrrrrr! When programming in fancy IDEs is faster than surfing the web, you know that something is wrong with the world....
    - hocuspocus 10y ago
      Of course, the MacBook is passive :) Incremental compilation makes my coworkers' gear loud enough I can hear it anywhere in the room. No HVAC over here. Maybe a MacPro would handle the load better, but that's completely overkill for our needs. The MBPr and iMac keep getting thinner, for no good reason in the iMac's case.
sliken 10y ago
I wish the Macbook mini would get some love. It's GASP, actually upgradable. Swapping out the dimms, storage, or display is relatively straight forward.
BuckRogers 10y ago
People are missing that the Macbook line are still the best laptops on the market. PC manufacturers will never catch up until they wittle down their selections to 10 or less choices as Apple does. It's too easy to buy garbage from Dell/HP/Lenovo. Versus any MB(P) is going to be a slam dunk everytime. Most people other than professionals or gamers care about desktops. I'd just build one but those who want macOS the Mac Pro will be updated soon. I'm not an Apple guy, only own an iPhone but people who insist Apple has fallen off (and say so every single time there's a shred of slightly negative news) are delusional. I'm aware of the market to a fair degree and the only compelling alternative to a MBP is the X1 Yoga.

by jclardy 10y ago

WildUtah 10y ago

Mostly you're straight on, but the latest iMacs are among the best desktop PCs ever built. And they're still a good deal.

jclardy 10y ago
As far as AIO's go they are great, especially with the 5k display, but the main issue is that Apple doesn't spec bump them. It has been 472 days since the last iMac update and it will likely be at least until spring before we hear about an update. The main issue for me is that my laptop can now use Thunderbolt 3 accessories, but if I bought an iMac today I'd be stuck with thunderbolt 2 and no usb-c ports for the next 3 or so years that I would be using the machine.
- protomyth 10y ago
  Plus, I'm starting to be concerned with quality. Of the last 12 we've ordered 3 were DOA. They got replaced (one after over 2 months), but it wasn't a good experience. They aren't the dumpster fire that HP turned into on the low end for a while, but it is concerning as we have had to send machines back for recalls and fixes. It made for an interesting discussion when we decided a new lab was going to be Intel NUCs with LG 21x9 monitors over buying the outdated Macs. I am hoping for some sign Apple gets it together in 2017.
bangonkeyboard 10y ago
They're desktop PCs with midrange mobile GPUs and mobile RAM in an aging design so thermally compromised for the sake of thinness that it throttles the CPU and GPU at the first sign of either one approaching load while the revving fan efficiently draws in dust from its environment and deposits it irremovably onto the inside of the LCD. Fantastic display panel, though.
- astrodust 10y ago
  > Fantastic display panel, though. That's why people buy them. It's not for the fastest CPU, it's definitely not for the GPU. It's because it has a fast enough CPU, a good enough GPU and goes all-in on the display.
  - tomne 10y ago
    Aren't they all glossy though? It looks better, but it's less practical whenever you get some sunlight.
    - jakobegger 10y ago
      I don't know what the iMacs are like, but the Macbooks have gotten pretty good anti-reflective coating, and they have pretty bright backlight. I prefer my glossy 2015 Macbook Pro to my anti-glare matte 2009 Macbook Pro, even in difficult lighting.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      If you're not used to it that can be jarring, but over time it's less of an issue. It's not something I notice unless I'm in a really bad spot and there's tons of light coming in. Good thing civilization invented this thing called blinds.

wodenokoto 10y ago

When I bought my current MacBook Pro (2009), it was the cheapest available amongst the updated pro's and it cost me $1.000 Apple simply don't offer that price point anymore. What used to be their low-price line of laptops - the MacBook, now starts at $1.300

ceejayoz 10y ago
Macbook Airs start at $999. Inflation adds about $120 to your $1k figure since 2009, too.
- edblarney 10y ago
  The cheapest macbook air is a pretty weak laptop. It's very light on specs, compared to similar products. Yes - it's a good piece of kit - but maybe not worth the price. To get decent specs you have to pay a lot for Apple and I think it's becoming a problem.
  - myowncrapulence 10y ago
    Yeah I suspect they're starting to overcharge for their greatest strength: their software (macOS/Apple suite of apps). While I used to fawn over their minimal interface and simple UX, they've been adding a lot of unnecessary noise (siri, itunes forcing apple music, cluttering imessage with extensions) to their products. Definitely straying away from their status quo. Couple this with the fact they purposely force non-compatibility with anything non-apple and you have them becoming the new Microsoft. They're changing the things that make Apple great and it isn't worth the price anymore.
endemic 10y ago
Yeah, the value prop for the older (expandable) models was higher, as you could buy a reasonably-priced configuration then upgrade the RAM/HDD later. Now I'd need to spend $2k to price out a MBP with the same RAM/HDD as my 6 year old Mac.

monk_e_boy 10y ago

The Dell Alienware is so much better value. Amazing keyboard, run any game you like, super fast. I don't care about Win10 either way. It unlocks with facial recognition. It weighs more than my car (but I leave it on my desk 99% of the time) I just couldn't justify buying an Apple, as much as I wanted one. [edit] how the hell do I keep getting down voted for voicing my opinion? Lol. Nope. You're opinion is wrong, lose a point!

tekklloneer 10y ago
The flip side is that I needed a laptop to take with me to events, so I got a $750 dell xps13. If I were a college student, I'd be eyeing the $1200 version extremely hard versus an equivalent specced macbook pro at $1700 Or, the $750 version (which is what I have) versus a $1000 macbook that's significantly less powerful.
- jerven 10y ago
  I just got myself a Dell precision 5510 with Ubuntu out of the box. A lot more capable than the most power full current macbook pro, weighs slightly less then the macbook pro from 2009 I am typing this on (moving files across to the new dell) After 16 years of Mac use I don't regret the switch.
  - bostand 10y ago
    Is this a 15" laptop? I recently realized that a modern 15" can be much more ergonomic yet almost as small and light as a 13" from a couple of years back.
    - iSnow 10y ago
      I've seen the precision 5510 and while I wouldn't say it is beautiful, it is really small for a 15". At 2Kg (with the large battery), it is still heavy, though.
      - 10y ago

Shivetya 10y ago

How Apple can leave the Mac Pro and Mini in their old configuration this long is beyond reason. 1000 days since its debut. Apple should be ashamed of this. Yet this company is operating like the days before Steve returned except this time there is no Steve to right it I expect the iMac to get a new chipset but I would like to see the Mac mini updated. Either update the Mac Pro or pull it.

astrodust 10y ago
They claim there's updates in the works. Here's hoping they push them out soon.
- Joeri 10y ago
  With apple's recent behavior, the updates may not be upgrades, but trade-offs.
  - wmeredith 10y ago
    Seriously. I hope the updates aren't adding more retina screens to more surfaces I don't look at.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    I think they're having trouble finding their way in the post-PC world. Jobs knew this day was coming, that the PC would take a back seat to other devices, and brought up the analogy of Apple as BMW: The German company started out building motorcycles and while car sales soon vastly eclipsed that, they continued making really good bikes. It was a point of pride for them. If Apple goes back to that approach, of making Really Good Computers because they can, selling them not at a loss but at a respectable price for a respectable product, they might piss off fewer in their developer slash power user camp. I'm not sure this is their current strategy. The "Pro" monicker seems to be a little diluted in terms of meaning these days.
    - JustSomeNobody 10y ago

feross 10y ago

"If you want to write fast software, use a slow computer" - Dominic Tarr The 12" Macbook is the best computer I've ever owned. Switched to it from a 2014 Macbook Pro, and found it very easy to adjust. The only time it struggles a little bit is when I run Windows in VMware, on occasion. The biggest benefit of the Macbook 12" is that if software runs well on your computer, you know it's guaranteed to run extra buttery-smooth on other computers, which all have beefier CPUs and GPUs.

michaelbuckbee 10y ago
It's a good quote, but I feel it reflects a time when I didn't also need to run a stack of Redis, RabbitMQ, Postgres and webserver apps on my development box.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- efficax 10y ago
  I run literally all of that, and a couple of virtual machines on my 2016 rMB. It works fine. Sure, I can't play Doom 4. But if I need extra cycles for my development work, I spin up an ec2 instance.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Why local and not cloud/vps?
  - eecc 10y ago
    Why bother with a "pro" device at all, just get a chromebook and call it a day. Except there's a ton of premium stuff you can do more easily locally, and it's all stuff that hasn't been productized down to cheap web-office quality standards
    - jessaustin 10y ago
      Many of us have done just that...

edblarney 10y ago

I just bought a new Macbook, and I can say that it's a great product. Probably the best on the market. The problem I had was cost - they are over-priced. Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. My Mac has 200-ish G hard-drive which is f-ing retardedly small. They should all have 1T. But if you want those upgrades you have to pay massively more. I fundamentally believe the issue is simply price. If you could get a sub-$2K macbook with 16G RAM, good CPU and lots of disk-space - this conversation would never be had. I really do think Apple has the best boxes, but they are barely worth it, and just not worth it in many cases.

iak8god 10y ago
> Yes, I've heard the argument that if you want 'x RAM with y CPU' etc it will 'cost just as much' - but this is just no longer true. The Macs with 16G memory are crazy expensive. What boggles my mind is how many of them max out at 8G. I couldn't care less about CPU, and I'm flexible about storage, but 8G RAM is ridiculous. I'm currently using a couple of MS office apps and a web browser on my 2015 MBP and it's using 12G. I had a 2011 (or earlier, but I think it was the 2011) MBP that was happy to accept 16G. I'd gladly settle for a 12" MB for most work if I could just get >8G in one.
- guitarbill 10y ago
  > but 8G RAM is ridiculous 8G RAM is not ridiculous. Statements like this just show how far out of touch people are. Many workloads benefit from more RAM. And for some it's a hard requirement (e.g. VMs), but web browsing and a bit of office is not one of them. This is why virtual memory/swap space is a thing - and with an SSD that's also not as horrible as it used to be.
  - iak8god 10y ago
    Web browsing and a bit of office is offered as an example of the lightest imaginable load for someone actually using a computer. My daily needs are much heavier than that. To offer a line of laptops with 8GB of RAM as the max in 2017 is ridiculous.

brianolson 10y ago

The world still isn't ready for a machine with only USB-C/thunderbolt-3. The aren't docks good enough with the right features or port combinations. The myriad of USB-C adaptors is only barely in place, some positions in that market have only one or two options without the depth of a mature market. USB-C/thunderbolt-3 _could be_ great, it could be the greatest docking connector yet, but until the right dock exists I shouldn't get a new MBP because I have a dozen legacy devices on my desk to connect. And everyone should hold off on the 12" Macbook until the next revision when it gets thunderbolt-3.

nessus42 10y ago

I have a Retina MacBook next to my sofa in the living room and a 27-inch Retina iMac with 16GB RAM on the desk in my study. At work I have a four year-old 27-inch iMac with all SSD storage and 16GB of RAM. It's still going strong, and I never think it's too slow for anything, despite developing in Scala, which has a slow compiler, and using Intellij or Eclipse, which are resource hogs. I love them all to death. It doesn't really matter to me whether I could have gotten something cheaper. If I did that, I'd have a little bit more money, and I'd be significantly less happy.

hocuspocus 10y ago
How do you deal with noise though? Scala and SBT can make the whole Apple product line noisy in my experience :)
- nessus42 10y ago
  You mean make the fans blast? Well, they're not that loud. The building H/V airflow is usually a lot louder. And my Retina MacBook doesn't even have a fan. (Though I also don't do a lot of software development on it, I have done development on slower machines, and it wasn't terribly painful. Depending on what I was doing, of course.) I still remember the days of programming in C++ using C-front, and a compile would take 20 minutes. Being a gdb wizard was essential. These days, even with Scala, compilation is fast enough on a four-core iMac that debugging via print statements is easier than using a debugger. I guess I'm old enough that I just haven't gotten spoiled by expecting everything to be superfast. Though what does annoy me is how slow many websites are. Grrrrrr! When programming in fancy IDEs is faster than surfing the web, you know that something is wrong with the world....
  - hocuspocus 10y ago
    Of course, the MacBook is passive :) Incremental compilation makes my coworkers' gear loud enough I can hear it anywhere in the room. No HVAC over here. Maybe a MacPro would handle the load better, but that's completely overkill for our needs. The MBPr and iMac keep getting thinner, for no good reason in the iMac's case.

sliken 10y ago

I wish the Macbook mini would get some love. It's GASP, actually upgradable. Swapping out the dimms, storage, or display is relatively straight forward.

BuckRogers 10y ago

People are missing that the Macbook line are still the best laptops on the market. PC manufacturers will never catch up until they wittle down their selections to 10 or less choices as Apple does. It's too easy to buy garbage from Dell/HP/Lenovo. Versus any MB(P) is going to be a slam dunk everytime. Most people other than professionals or gamers care about desktops. I'd just build one but those who want macOS the Mac Pro will be updated soon. I'm not an Apple guy, only own an iPhone but people who insist Apple has fallen off (and say so every single time there's a shred of slightly negative news) are delusional. I'm aware of the market to a fair degree and the only compelling alternative to a MBP is the X1 Yoga.