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>I also have a problem with the notion that the only freedom that matters is economic. As I see it, the goal of Thiel and his fellow-travelers is feudalism. Wr

• __jal 10y ago
  > Wrong, it is freedom to do whatever you want with your property while freely associating with others. You're adding in free association, which I accept. I still find that a massively stunted definition, which omits many important freedoms. > Protecting national borders and addressing illegal immigration should be done anyhow. ...Which restricts freedom of association and the movement of labor. > He talked about tariffs a lot, I would disagree about this. Sure, flashy protectionist silliness. We'll see what congress allows there. > Not sure what "hard-right" means for you, but what I read from here is that any social engineering from the right wing is wrong while the same thing from the left is okay. Interesting that you don't deny it, at least. 'Hard right' to me includes many of his appointees and vice president. > Interestingly enough, libertarians that agree with Thiel feel freer now since political correctness is no longer the dominant doctrine Interestingly enough, libertarians hurt feelings (billionaire or not) have little to do with freedom of speech. You're talking about freedom of consequence from one's speech; in other words, the consequences of saying things that offend others[1]. I'm talking about the threats to "loosen up libel law" (which isn't going to work very well for technical reasons, but nonetheless), the desire to beat the press into submission, etc. In other words, I'm talking about freedom of speech, not people whining about other people talking back. [1] I don't know when "political correctness" has ever been "the dominant doctrine"; perhaps other people feel much more threatened by whiny college kids than I do. In any case, if someone can't handle the marketplace of ideas, I tend to think they should toughen up a mite to stick to their preferred media bubble.
  • vedranm 10y ago
    >...Which restricts freedom of association and the movement of labor. True. In a libertarian society everything would be private and borders wouldn't exist, they would be handled on the basis of no trespassing on private property. In that case, you can have it all. >'Hard right' to me includes many of his appointees and vice president. Well, I find them to be on the left from e.g. Ron and Rand Paul, so for my taste they are not particularly right wing. I am concerned with authoritarianism coming from any side of the political spectrum (in case there was any doubt about it). >Interestingly enough, libertarians hurt feelings (billionaire or not) have little to do with freedom of speech. You're talking about freedom of consequence from one's speech; in other words, the consequences of saying things that offend others. I'm talking about the threats to "loosen up libel law" (which isn't going to work very well for technical reasons, but nonetheless), the desire to beat the press into submission, etc. Good point. Judging from #GamerGate and censorship on GitHub (private entity, sure they can legally do it, that's beside the point) [1], I would say PC was hitting quite hard (and to an extent still is, but hopefully not for long). I personally don't subscribe to it and invite others to do the same. The interventions into freedom of association under the guise of non-discrimination and forced equality should be criticized openly. As Pat Buchanan said: "Where equality is enthroned, freedom is extinguished. The rise of the egalitarian society means the death of the free society." We'll see what Trump does about the press. I personally wouldn't support libel laws of any kind, but I understand the argument behind them. Right now, I don't mind him bashing the press as hard as he does and I don't mind press bashing him either, the free market will decide whether people want such narrative to exist or not. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9966118