7 ms·

Why the Trump side? Did you not notice what the Obama side did to Manning and Snowden, just to name two leakers?

by anc84 10y ago

TheShadowRunner 10y ago
Obama (for the most part) went after National Security leakers, IIRC. Trump seems to be going after any federal agency that does not pursue goals that he wants.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  To keep this in context the "National Security leakers" leaked data about the Orwellian surveillance state he created and journalists that were murdered by US armed forces.
  - btilly 10y ago
    Actually the Orwellian surveillance state was mostly created by Bush. Obama only inherited and expanded it. (And now Trump looks like he wants to USE it...)
- PKop 10y ago
  What are you talking about... serious question? Seems as if what Trump has initiated is no different than previous administrations upon taking office [0]. Are you sure there's some clear break from past precedent? [0] https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/825001424455077890 https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/825001424455077890
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - WalterSear 10y ago
    https://twitter.com/MsKellyMHayes/status/824707261754994690 https://twitter.com/MsKellyMHayes/status/824707261754994690
  - btilly 10y ago
    I am quite sure. Moves like https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/epa-science-under-scrutiny-by-trump-political-staff/2017/01/25/1f8424a2-e35b-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?utm_term=.35d2bd397afa https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/epa-scien... to provide political review and censorship of scientific work is something that hasn't happened in this country since McCarthy was taken down. Or take the reinstatement of the Holman rule. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.9628dc4f9cef https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house.... This rule allows politicians to target individual civil servants. This is again not business as normal. This rule was removed under Ronald Reagan in 1983. No administration since has sought its reinstatement. This again fits into the theme of creating "chilling effects" from partisan oversight of what is supposed to be a politically neutral organization. For a third example, see http://www.salon.com/2017/01/10/please-dont-tell-us-the-truth-house-gop-blocks-budget-watchdog-from-reviewing-cost-of-obamacare-repeal/ http://www.salon.com/2017/01/10/please-dont-tell-us-the-trut.... The CBO is widely viewed as neutral, and has been kept that way for many years. It routinely provides estimates for every bill of what that bill's impacts are likely to be, including the estimates of the impact on our deficit. However House Republicans want to repeal the Affordable Care Act and do not wish to be embarrassed by estimates of how much removing some of its inflation limiting provisions will impact our federal deficit. So they are banning the CBO from calculating this number. I can cite plenty of precedents for all of these actions. They are all before my birth, or in other countries. They are emphatically NOT business as usual in the modern USA.
btilly 10y ago
Because Trump is in power and has declared war on the media. Obama is not in power and hasn't. Therefore Trump supporters are the ones who have motivation to shut down and discredit this avenue of reaching the media. And yes, I am perfectly aware of what Obama did to Manning and Snowden. I objected to that at the time, and still do. One of the stupidities of overly polarized politics is that people assume that you must be on one side or the other. This would be a bad assumption to make about me.
- BryanBeshore 10y ago
  "Obama is not in power and hasn't". Hasn't is not correct. The Obama Administration was notoriously terrible towards the press. The below from an article published today: https://news.grabien.com/story-why-it-will-be-hard-trump-surpass-obamas-record-chilling-pre https://news.grabien.com/story-why-it-will-be-hard-trump-sur... Obama Admin on Fox News: “We’re going to treat them the way we would treat an opponent,” said Anita Dunn, the White House communications director, in a telephone interview on Sunday. “As they are undertaking a war against Barack Obama and the White House, we don’t need to pretend that this is the way that legitimate news organizations behave.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/business/media/12fox.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/business/media/12fox.html The [Obama] administration sought to deny Fox News' participation in executive branch news-making events -- which only failed after other networks admirably refused to participate if Fox News were excluded. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/white-houses-fox-news-boy_n_331437.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/white-houses-fox-ne... James Rosen, reported accurate information about North Korea leaked by a member of the Obama State Department, Eric Holder ordered his movements to be tracked, his phone records seized, and went "judge shopping" until he found one willing to grant such a warrant without telling Rosen himself. Holder even told Google to not notify Rosen that the government was monitoring his email. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-justice-department-leak-probe/2013/05/19/0bc473de-be5e-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html?utm_term=.5facb710db08 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-just... http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-prosecutors-fought-to-keep-rosens-warrant-secret http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-prosecutors-foug... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-ap-rosen-investigations-government-makes-criminals-of-reporters/2013/05/21/377af392-c24e-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_story.html?utm_term=.2cc8d6f3bd3a https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-ap-r... The New York Times's James Risen was targeted for almost the entirety of Obama's two terms. His crime? Reporting accurate information the Obama Administration didn't want reported. "Along the way, we found out that the government had spied on virtually every aspect of James Risen’s digital life from phone calls, to emails, to credit card statements, bank records and more," https://freedom.press/news-advocacy/the-james-risen-case-and-eric-holders-tarnished-press-freedom-legacy/ https://freedom.press/news-advocacy/the-james-risen-case-and... The Associated Press experienced similar surveillance. For two months, the Department of Justice tracked 20 AP reporters' calls, ostensibly over their reporting into a Libyan terrorist's failed plot. Why was reporting on a failed plot so threatening? The AP said it was because the administration wanted to announce the news itself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-question-whether-ap-leak-on-al-qaeda-plot-put-us-at-risk/2013/05/15/47003ed4-bd77-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_print.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-question-whethe... Just pointing out that 'Hasn't' is not correct. Carry on...

Why the Trump side? Did you not notice what the Obama side did to Manning and Snowden, just to name two leakers?

by anc84 10y ago

Why the Trump side? Did you not notice what the Obama side did to Manning and Snowden, just to name two leakers?

Obama (for the most part) went after National Security leakers, IIRC. Trump seems to be going after any federal agency that does not pursue goals that he wants.

cmdrfred 10y ago
To keep this in context the "National Security leakers" leaked data about the Orwellian surveillance state he created and journalists that were murdered by US armed forces.
- btilly 10y ago
  Actually the Orwellian surveillance state was mostly created by Bush. Obama only inherited and expanded it. (And now Trump looks like he wants to USE it...)
PKop 10y ago
What are you talking about... serious question? Seems as if what Trump has initiated is no different than previous administrations upon taking office [0]. Are you sure there's some clear break from past precedent? [0] https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/825001424455077890 https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/825001424455077890
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- WalterSear 10y ago
  https://twitter.com/MsKellyMHayes/status/824707261754994690 https://twitter.com/MsKellyMHayes/status/824707261754994690
- btilly 10y ago
  I am quite sure. Moves like https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/epa-science-under-scrutiny-by-trump-political-staff/2017/01/25/1f8424a2-e35b-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?utm_term=.35d2bd397afa https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/epa-scien... to provide political review and censorship of scientific work is something that hasn't happened in this country since McCarthy was taken down. Or take the reinstatement of the Holman rule. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house-republicans-revive-obscure-rule-that-could-allow-them-to-slash-the-pay-of-individual-federal-workers-to-1/2017/01/04/4e80c990-d2b2-11e6-945a-76f69a399dd5_story.html?utm_term=.9628dc4f9cef https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/house.... This rule allows politicians to target individual civil servants. This is again not business as normal. This rule was removed under Ronald Reagan in 1983. No administration since has sought its reinstatement. This again fits into the theme of creating "chilling effects" from partisan oversight of what is supposed to be a politically neutral organization. For a third example, see http://www.salon.com/2017/01/10/please-dont-tell-us-the-truth-house-gop-blocks-budget-watchdog-from-reviewing-cost-of-obamacare-repeal/ http://www.salon.com/2017/01/10/please-dont-tell-us-the-trut.... The CBO is widely viewed as neutral, and has been kept that way for many years. It routinely provides estimates for every bill of what that bill's impacts are likely to be, including the estimates of the impact on our deficit. However House Republicans want to repeal the Affordable Care Act and do not wish to be embarrassed by estimates of how much removing some of its inflation limiting provisions will impact our federal deficit. So they are banning the CBO from calculating this number. I can cite plenty of precedents for all of these actions. They are all before my birth, or in other countries. They are emphatically NOT business as usual in the modern USA.

btilly 10y ago

Because Trump is in power and has declared war on the media. Obama is not in power and hasn't. Therefore Trump supporters are the ones who have motivation to shut down and discredit this avenue of reaching the media. And yes, I am perfectly aware of what Obama did to Manning and Snowden. I objected to that at the time, and still do. One of the stupidities of overly polarized politics is that people assume that you must be on one side or the other. This would be a bad assumption to make about me.

BryanBeshore 10y ago
"Obama is not in power and hasn't". Hasn't is not correct. The Obama Administration was notoriously terrible towards the press. The below from an article published today: https://news.grabien.com/story-why-it-will-be-hard-trump-surpass-obamas-record-chilling-pre https://news.grabien.com/story-why-it-will-be-hard-trump-sur... Obama Admin on Fox News: “We’re going to treat them the way we would treat an opponent,” said Anita Dunn, the White House communications director, in a telephone interview on Sunday. “As they are undertaking a war against Barack Obama and the White House, we don’t need to pretend that this is the way that legitimate news organizations behave.” http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/business/media/12fox.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/business/media/12fox.html The [Obama] administration sought to deny Fox News' participation in executive branch news-making events -- which only failed after other networks admirably refused to participate if Fox News were excluded. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/white-houses-fox-news-boy_n_331437.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/white-houses-fox-ne... James Rosen, reported accurate information about North Korea leaked by a member of the Obama State Department, Eric Holder ordered his movements to be tracked, his phone records seized, and went "judge shopping" until he found one willing to grant such a warrant without telling Rosen himself. Holder even told Google to not notify Rosen that the government was monitoring his email. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-justice-department-leak-probe/2013/05/19/0bc473de-be5e-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html?utm_term=.5facb710db08 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-just... http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-prosecutors-fought-to-keep-rosens-warrant-secret http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-prosecutors-foug... https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-ap-rosen-investigations-government-makes-criminals-of-reporters/2013/05/21/377af392-c24e-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_story.html?utm_term=.2cc8d6f3bd3a https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-ap-r... The New York Times's James Risen was targeted for almost the entirety of Obama's two terms. His crime? Reporting accurate information the Obama Administration didn't want reported. "Along the way, we found out that the government had spied on virtually every aspect of James Risen’s digital life from phone calls, to emails, to credit card statements, bank records and more," https://freedom.press/news-advocacy/the-james-risen-case-and-eric-holders-tarnished-press-freedom-legacy/ https://freedom.press/news-advocacy/the-james-risen-case-and... The Associated Press experienced similar surveillance. For two months, the Department of Justice tracked 20 AP reporters' calls, ostensibly over their reporting into a Libyan terrorist's failed plot. Why was reporting on a failed plot so threatening? The AP said it was because the administration wanted to announce the news itself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-question-whether-ap-leak-on-al-qaeda-plot-put-us-at-risk/2013/05/15/47003ed4-bd77-11e2-89c9-3be8095fe767_print.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-question-whethe... Just pointing out that 'Hasn't' is not correct. Carry on...