5 ms·

The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected, even some of the head of states and against things that are being forced upon their countries.

The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected, even some of the head of states and against things that are being forced upon their countries. You can try all day convince me others about your "liberal" (since it's U.S based community, I use this stupid term) ideas and how you're right, I'm not, but the fact is people on independent EU states don't agree with you and in the end of the day that is what matters. That is why the EU project is about to be destroyed because so-called liberals deny problems and never listens to other side's arguments. Instead of improving and changing things, hard break up is the only way and this is what is happening. It's time to pop out from your bubble.

richmarr 10y ago
> The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected... You're stretching the truth past breaking point here. Firstly, Oletros, said "elected or formed", so you're misrepresenting what was said and then arguing against that misrepresentation. Secondly, the Parliament is democratically elected, the Council consists of heads of state (also democratic), and the Commission is appointed by democratically elected member governments (so also democratic). > You can try all day convince me... Ah, so after having your 'alternative facts' challenged you're adopting the fingers-in-ears-la-la-la-la-I-cant-hear-you defence. Bravo. Bravo. > It's time to pop out from your bubble. The strongest support for Brexit came from comparatively isolated communities with little or no immigration. Cities, where people are exposed to a variety of cultures, tended to vote Remain. It seems pretty clear which group is better described as living in a bubble.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  I'm not stretching anything. If you want to talk about Brexit, the majority voted out, that is all what matters. There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. France will be next. Good luck telling the vast majority of the native population (because they are going to to be the ones voting for Le Pen) is racist. Your words have no meaning. Poland, eastern Europe doesn't want mass immigration from Muslims countries either. Look at what is happening it Czech Republic, Slovakia. The whole EU deal reminds them too much Soviet Union. The last "liberal" people are mass media, journalists, and Silicon Valley bubble that ignores what is happening around other people.
  - richmarr 10y ago
    > I'm not stretching anything. I've just explained how your comment stretched the truth to breaking point. You're welcome to continue denying it, instead of actually defending your position. > There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. These are some of the claims you've made that are verifiably and undeniably wrong. 1) Your claim to speak for "the people" is untrue, because in fact your opinions are only shared by some portion of a slim majority. 2) Your claim that "1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone" is nonsense, because (a) only a miniscule portion of those refugees will leave their country of asylum (where they have food and lodging) and travel to where they have nothing, and (b) the UK isn't even in the Schengen zone. Notably Germany's economy is doing very well having taken in 1.1 million refugees. 3) Your claim that EU institutions aren't democratically formed is obviously nonsense. You might not like the way they're structured, and fair enough, there are issues, but they most certainly are formed democratically... a mixture of direct & representitive formation. 4) Your claim that there's nothing racist about wanting to reduce immigration is clearly untrue. UKIP is disproportionately racist, according to YouGov data. This is where you deflect from the fact that you're peddling falshoods by saying that "the UK voted to leave and that's that" and walk off in a huff.
Oletros 10y ago
> You can try all day convince me others about your "liberal" (since it's U.S based community, I use this stupid term) ideas and how you're right, Taking into account that I'm an Spanish living in Spain in a town with almost 30% of foreign population and that I have always voted leftist parties and I think that Merkel has been one of the worst leaders in the EU in decades it is clear that you not only don't know how the EU works but you have a very strange way to put labels on people and what the people in the EU thinks. Your comment about "you can say racist all you want but that doesn't change the fact." says a lot
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Of course you have always voted for leftist parties. If you look at your political map it's always blue, PP. Why? Because the conservatives in Spain are shut down, all you hear is that damn communist speaking in media. The reality is your socialists are doomed, alternative is a guy who thinks soviet union was a wonderland. PP and and people voting for PP, even with their corruption, are the people who keep the country running. The only reason you hate Merkel is because Spain was not able to loan money indefinitely. Thank god your right-wing leaders didnd't let communists destroy your country, I know very well what you mean. I'm not an American. Look what has happened with Greece. mas ducha y menos lucha.
  - Oletros 10y ago
    Ah, thanks for showing what you're really are. Time to move on and not waste the time

richmarr 10y ago

> The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected... You're stretching the truth past breaking point here. Firstly, Oletros, said "elected or formed", so you're misrepresenting what was said and then arguing against that misrepresentation. Secondly, the Parliament is democratically elected, the Council consists of heads of state (also democratic), and the Commission is appointed by democratically elected member governments (so also democratic). > You can try all day convince me... Ah, so after having your 'alternative facts' challenged you're adopting the fingers-in-ears-la-la-la-la-I-cant-hear-you defence. Bravo. Bravo. > It's time to pop out from your bubble. The strongest support for Brexit came from comparatively isolated communities with little or no immigration. Cities, where people are exposed to a variety of cultures, tended to vote Remain. It seems pretty clear which group is better described as living in a bubble.

angry-hacker 10y ago
I'm not stretching anything. If you want to talk about Brexit, the majority voted out, that is all what matters. There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. France will be next. Good luck telling the vast majority of the native population (because they are going to to be the ones voting for Le Pen) is racist. Your words have no meaning. Poland, eastern Europe doesn't want mass immigration from Muslims countries either. Look at what is happening it Czech Republic, Slovakia. The whole EU deal reminds them too much Soviet Union. The last "liberal" people are mass media, journalists, and Silicon Valley bubble that ignores what is happening around other people.
- richmarr 10y ago
  > I'm not stretching anything. I've just explained how your comment stretched the truth to breaking point. You're welcome to continue denying it, instead of actually defending your position. > There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. These are some of the claims you've made that are verifiably and undeniably wrong. 1) Your claim to speak for "the people" is untrue, because in fact your opinions are only shared by some portion of a slim majority. 2) Your claim that "1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone" is nonsense, because (a) only a miniscule portion of those refugees will leave their country of asylum (where they have food and lodging) and travel to where they have nothing, and (b) the UK isn't even in the Schengen zone. Notably Germany's economy is doing very well having taken in 1.1 million refugees. 3) Your claim that EU institutions aren't democratically formed is obviously nonsense. You might not like the way they're structured, and fair enough, there are issues, but they most certainly are formed democratically... a mixture of direct & representitive formation. 4) Your claim that there's nothing racist about wanting to reduce immigration is clearly untrue. UKIP is disproportionately racist, according to YouGov data. This is where you deflect from the fact that you're peddling falshoods by saying that "the UK voted to leave and that's that" and walk off in a huff.

Oletros 10y ago

> You can try all day convince me others about your "liberal" (since it's U.S based community, I use this stupid term) ideas and how you're right, Taking into account that I'm an Spanish living in Spain in a town with almost 30% of foreign population and that I have always voted leftist parties and I think that Merkel has been one of the worst leaders in the EU in decades it is clear that you not only don't know how the EU works but you have a very strange way to put labels on people and what the people in the EU thinks. Your comment about "you can say racist all you want but that doesn't change the fact." says a lot

angry-hacker 10y ago
Of course you have always voted for leftist parties. If you look at your political map it's always blue, PP. Why? Because the conservatives in Spain are shut down, all you hear is that damn communist speaking in media. The reality is your socialists are doomed, alternative is a guy who thinks soviet union was a wonderland. PP and and people voting for PP, even with their corruption, are the people who keep the country running. The only reason you hate Merkel is because Spain was not able to loan money indefinitely. Thank god your right-wing leaders didnd't let communists destroy your country, I know very well what you mean. I'm not an American. Look what has happened with Greece. mas ducha y menos lucha.
- Oletros 10y ago
  Ah, thanks for showing what you're really are. Time to move on and not waste the time