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Merkel/Brussels/EU telling how to handle refugees, how many should (independent) EU state take them, when etc. People don't like it or want it. They want to dec

Merkel/Brussels/EU telling how to handle refugees, how many should (independent) EU state take them, when etc. People don't like it or want it. They want to decide decisions like that on their own.

Oletros 10y ago
Germany took 1.1 million refugees and 120.000 were to other countries. Are you saying that 120.000 refugees in 24 countries is mass migration in the EU?
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Well, in total its 1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone. 1.1 is definitely mass immigration and in the end, it's for the people of EU countries decide what they want. It doesn't matter what you or anyone else calls it. It's very obvious people don't want it, and they didn't elect the people who are making these decisions for them. Sweden alone has gotten 100,000 applications.
  - Oletros 10y ago
    > Well, in total its 1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone So, you're admitting that you were wrong in your first claim > 1.1 is definitely mass immigration You have a very strange definition of mass. > it's for the people of EU countries decide what they want. Yes, because of that we have institutions in the EU. > It's very obvious people don't want it, and they didn't elect the people who are making these decisions for them. Yes, they did. Do you know how the EU works and how the institutions are elected or formed?
    - angry-hacker 10y ago
      The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected, even some of the head of states and against things that are being forced upon their countries. You can try all day convince me others about your "liberal" (since it's U.S based community, I use this stupid term) ideas and how you're right, I'm not, but the fact is people on independent EU states don't agree with you and in the end of the day that is what matters. That is why the EU project is about to be destroyed because so-called liberals deny problems and never listens to other side's arguments. Instead of improving and changing things, hard break up is the only way and this is what is happening. It's time to pop out from your bubble.
      - richmarr 10y ago
        > The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected... You're stretching the truth past breaking point here. Firstly, Oletros, said "elected or formed", so you're misrepresenting what was said and then arguing against that misrepresentation. Secondly, the Parliament is democratically elected, the Council consists of heads of state (also democratic), and the Commission is appointed by democratically elected member governments (so also democratic). > You can try all day convince me... Ah, so after having your 'alternative facts' challenged you're adopting the fingers-in-ears-la-la-la-la-I-cant-hear-you defence. Bravo. Bravo. > It's time to pop out from your bubble. The strongest support for Brexit came from comparatively isolated communities with little or no immigration. Cities, where people are exposed to a variety of cultures, tended to vote Remain. It seems pretty clear which group is better described as living in a bubble.
        angry-hacker 10y ago
        I'm not stretching anything. If you want to talk about Brexit, the majority voted out, that is all what matters. There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. France will be next. Good luck telling the vast majority of the native population (because they are going to to be the ones voting for Le Pen) is racist. Your words have no meaning. Poland, eastern Europe doesn't want mass immigration from Muslims countries either. Look at what is happening it Czech Republic, Slovakia. The whole EU deal reminds them too much Soviet Union. The last "liberal" people are mass media, journalists, and Silicon Valley bubble that ignores what is happening around other people.
        richmarr 10y ago
        > I'm not stretching anything. I've just explained how your comment stretched the truth to breaking point. You're welcome to continue denying it, instead of actually defending your position. > There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. These are some of the claims you've made that are verifiably and undeniably wrong. 1) Your claim to speak for "the people" is untrue, because in fact your opinions are only shared by some portion of a slim majority. 2) Your claim that "1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone" is nonsense, because (a) only a miniscule portion of those refugees will leave their country of asylum (where they have food and lodging) and travel to where they have nothing, and (b) the UK isn't even in the Schengen zone. Notably Germany's economy is doing very well having taken in 1.1 million refugees. 3) Your claim that EU institutions aren't democratically formed is obviously nonsense. You might not like the way they're structured, and fair enough, there are issues, but they most certainly are formed democratically... a mixture of direct & representitive formation. 4) Your claim that there's nothing racist about wanting to reduce immigration is clearly untrue. UKIP is disproportionately racist, according to YouGov data. This is where you deflect from the fact that you're peddling falshoods by saying that "the UK voted to leave and that's that" and walk off in a huff.

Merkel/Brussels/EU telling how to handle refugees, how many should (independent) EU state take them, when etc. People don't like it or want it. They want to decide decisions like that on their own.

Oletros 10y ago

Germany took 1.1 million refugees and 120.000 were to other countries. Are you saying that 120.000 refugees in 24 countries is mass migration in the EU?

angry-hacker 10y ago
Well, in total its 1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone. 1.1 is definitely mass immigration and in the end, it's for the people of EU countries decide what they want. It doesn't matter what you or anyone else calls it. It's very obvious people don't want it, and they didn't elect the people who are making these decisions for them. Sweden alone has gotten 100,000 applications.
- Oletros 10y ago
  > Well, in total its 1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone So, you're admitting that you were wrong in your first claim > 1.1 is definitely mass immigration You have a very strange definition of mass. > it's for the people of EU countries decide what they want. Yes, because of that we have institutions in the EU. > It's very obvious people don't want it, and they didn't elect the people who are making these decisions for them. Yes, they did. Do you know how the EU works and how the institutions are elected or formed?
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected, even some of the head of states and against things that are being forced upon their countries. You can try all day convince me others about your "liberal" (since it's U.S based community, I use this stupid term) ideas and how you're right, I'm not, but the fact is people on independent EU states don't agree with you and in the end of the day that is what matters. That is why the EU project is about to be destroyed because so-called liberals deny problems and never listens to other side's arguments. Instead of improving and changing things, hard break up is the only way and this is what is happening. It's time to pop out from your bubble.
    - richmarr 10y ago
      > The institutions most definitely are not democratically elected... You're stretching the truth past breaking point here. Firstly, Oletros, said "elected or formed", so you're misrepresenting what was said and then arguing against that misrepresentation. Secondly, the Parliament is democratically elected, the Council consists of heads of state (also democratic), and the Commission is appointed by democratically elected member governments (so also democratic). > You can try all day convince me... Ah, so after having your 'alternative facts' challenged you're adopting the fingers-in-ears-la-la-la-la-I-cant-hear-you defence. Bravo. Bravo. > It's time to pop out from your bubble. The strongest support for Brexit came from comparatively isolated communities with little or no immigration. Cities, where people are exposed to a variety of cultures, tended to vote Remain. It seems pretty clear which group is better described as living in a bubble.
      - angry-hacker 10y ago
        I'm not stretching anything. If you want to talk about Brexit, the majority voted out, that is all what matters. There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. France will be next. Good luck telling the vast majority of the native population (because they are going to to be the ones voting for Le Pen) is racist. Your words have no meaning. Poland, eastern Europe doesn't want mass immigration from Muslims countries either. Look at what is happening it Czech Republic, Slovakia. The whole EU deal reminds them too much Soviet Union. The last "liberal" people are mass media, journalists, and Silicon Valley bubble that ignores what is happening around other people.
        richmarr 10y ago
        > I'm not stretching anything. I've just explained how your comment stretched the truth to breaking point. You're welcome to continue denying it, instead of actually defending your position. > There is nothing "alternative" about my facts. These are some of the claims you've made that are verifiably and undeniably wrong. 1) Your claim to speak for "the people" is untrue, because in fact your opinions are only shared by some portion of a slim majority. 2) Your claim that "1.1 million people and since we have free movement in Schengen, it affects everyone" is nonsense, because (a) only a miniscule portion of those refugees will leave their country of asylum (where they have food and lodging) and travel to where they have nothing, and (b) the UK isn't even in the Schengen zone. Notably Germany's economy is doing very well having taken in 1.1 million refugees. 3) Your claim that EU institutions aren't democratically formed is obviously nonsense. You might not like the way they're structured, and fair enough, there are issues, but they most certainly are formed democratically... a mixture of direct & representitive formation. 4) Your claim that there's nothing racist about wanting to reduce immigration is clearly untrue. UKIP is disproportionately racist, according to YouGov data. This is where you deflect from the fact that you're peddling falshoods by saying that "the UK voted to leave and that's that" and walk off in a huff.