3 ms·

What would exclude AWS from large segments? Having to hand over data? Actually various governments around the world have the ability to compel entities to hand

by grabeh 10y ago

What would exclude AWS from large segments? Having to hand over data? Actually various governments around the world have the ability to compel entities to hand over data if in support of an investigation. It is not a concept unique to US entities. This is a reality we deal with and AWS will always fight hard to resist that disclosure. As I say, if you encrypt the data then AWS can only ever hand over that encrypted data. That is the comfort that you can offer users. Since you mention the GDPR, that regulation as with previous legislation contains carve-outs permitting disclosure of personal data to comply with legal obligations, for example assisting in criminal investigations. Also, the GDPR, whilst introducing certain obligations on processors, mainly deals with controllers, which AWS is not.

Beltiras 10y ago
If I have a subpoena issued against me for data it doesn't matter where the data resides. Having it stored in the EU insures we use EU courts to litigate the issue.
- grabeh 10y ago
  As you are in Germany then I would say you're out of scope for subpoenas direct from US governmental authorities. They would however look for assistance from German authorities who may or may not be minded to comply. Of course different jurisdictions will react differently to a request from a US governmental authority for assistance (Russia for example would be unlikely to comply I imagine). As you say therefore, in terms of direct action against you, you would be able to fight in your courts. In terms of the host of your data, the location of the data is of relevance, as is the jurisdiction in which the host is based. It's related to the Microsoft v US litigation. The main purpose of the litigation is to decide whether US entities hosting data outside the US have to comply with warrants to disclose that information (and in the process bypassing local protections/giving you the opportunity to fight in local courts). If Microsoft is successful in the litigation, they won't have to comply with US issued warrants in relation to data stored outside the US. If Microsoft loses, then you would be better placed using a hosting provider with no links to the US if you want to reduce the chances of data being disclosed to US governmental authorities.
  - Beltiras 10y ago
    This is my analysis as well. The only addition I have is that I find it very unlikely Microsoft will lose on appeal.
- onli 10y ago
  The subpoena – or at the very least, the concrete call to give the data – would not be issued against you. It would be issued against Amazon. You will have no course of defense in that case.
  - Beltiras 10y ago
    That's where the jurisdiction becomes very important. The outcome of USJD vs. Microsoft will dictate how it will be resolved. I'm betting that it will not be overturned on appeal.

by grabeh 10y ago

Beltiras 10y ago

If I have a subpoena issued against me for data it doesn't matter where the data resides. Having it stored in the EU insures we use EU courts to litigate the issue.

grabeh 10y ago
As you are in Germany then I would say you're out of scope for subpoenas direct from US governmental authorities. They would however look for assistance from German authorities who may or may not be minded to comply. Of course different jurisdictions will react differently to a request from a US governmental authority for assistance (Russia for example would be unlikely to comply I imagine). As you say therefore, in terms of direct action against you, you would be able to fight in your courts. In terms of the host of your data, the location of the data is of relevance, as is the jurisdiction in which the host is based. It's related to the Microsoft v US litigation. The main purpose of the litigation is to decide whether US entities hosting data outside the US have to comply with warrants to disclose that information (and in the process bypassing local protections/giving you the opportunity to fight in local courts). If Microsoft is successful in the litigation, they won't have to comply with US issued warrants in relation to data stored outside the US. If Microsoft loses, then you would be better placed using a hosting provider with no links to the US if you want to reduce the chances of data being disclosed to US governmental authorities.
- Beltiras 10y ago
  This is my analysis as well. The only addition I have is that I find it very unlikely Microsoft will lose on appeal.
onli 10y ago
The subpoena – or at the very least, the concrete call to give the data – would not be issued against you. It would be issued against Amazon. You will have no course of defense in that case.
- Beltiras 10y ago
  That's where the jurisdiction becomes very important. The outcome of USJD vs. Microsoft will dictate how it will be resolved. I'm betting that it will not be overturned on appeal.