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People in power will eventually use their power for their own purposes for (the combination of) two reasons: - They can and - They want to In situations like

People in power will eventually use their power for their own purposes for (the combination of) two reasons: - They can and - They want to In situations like these someone will eventually abuse power and from there on his/her all successors have the moral "the others did it as well" excuse (which is a pretty powerful excuse for humans and has a scientific name which I forgot). Government corruption is a game-theoretic necessity.

matt4077 10y ago
That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Additionally, the same logic would apply to any other crime, and crime rates have dropped across the board for a few decades now.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  > That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Which countries?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Freedonia.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Yeah, the ones doing the measuring and pointing the finger. They are also the ones that get to define what counts as corruption.
- dmichulke 10y ago
  > some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. I don't think there are countries free of corruption. You can have less or more but never zero. The important question here is how could they have less? Important parameters are IMO country size (smaller = better), degree of direct democracy, factual independence of institutions (as opposed to de iure independence) > the same logic would apply to any other crime No, because the ordinary criminals cannot escape the justice system as simply using their existing powers (in other words, gov't is at the top of the power food chain, ordinary criminals aren't). > and crime rates have dropped across the board Yes, I think this is because many candidate criminals have something to lose, unlike well-connected government officials.
- pillowkusis 10y ago
  the most common goverments free of (obvious) ccorruption are democracies. a senator CAN be corrupt, but often doesn't want to -- because if discovered to be corrupt, he would lose office. The people have control over voting him in or out. Not true in Liberia. Corruption or not, they're in power. It's in their best interest to be corrupt. It's accountability to the populous that keeps politicians from being corrupt. "The Dictator's Handbook" is a great book that spends a lot of time reflecting on why and how corruption happens.

matt4077 10y ago

That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Additionally, the same logic would apply to any other crime, and crime rates have dropped across the board for a few decades now.

tluyben2 10y ago
> That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Which countries?
- coldtea 10y ago
  Freedonia.
coldtea 10y ago
>That seems to be contradicted by the fact that some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. Yeah, the ones doing the measuring and pointing the finger. They are also the ones that get to define what counts as corruption.
dmichulke 10y ago
> some countries manage to be virtually free of corruption. I don't think there are countries free of corruption. You can have less or more but never zero. The important question here is how could they have less? Important parameters are IMO country size (smaller = better), degree of direct democracy, factual independence of institutions (as opposed to de iure independence) > the same logic would apply to any other crime No, because the ordinary criminals cannot escape the justice system as simply using their existing powers (in other words, gov't is at the top of the power food chain, ordinary criminals aren't). > and crime rates have dropped across the board Yes, I think this is because many candidate criminals have something to lose, unlike well-connected government officials.
pillowkusis 10y ago
the most common goverments free of (obvious) ccorruption are democracies. a senator CAN be corrupt, but often doesn't want to -- because if discovered to be corrupt, he would lose office. The people have control over voting him in or out. Not true in Liberia. Corruption or not, they're in power. It's in their best interest to be corrupt. It's accountability to the populous that keeps politicians from being corrupt. "The Dictator's Handbook" is a great book that spends a lot of time reflecting on why and how corruption happens.