10 ms·

A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. However the masses of Facebook have no such obligation.

by tbrock 10y ago

dTal 10y ago
Don't we all?
camus2 10y ago
> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. Very few people read newspapers. And even then, newspapers aren't news anymore either, it's entertainment, using emotion to deliver "news", not facts nor reason. It's all about getting the audience "triggered". This whole "fake news" thing is so hypocrite, what "trusted" news don't understand is that they lied so much in the past people stopped trusting them. That's why people check "alternative news sources". Main stream media needs to stop taking readers trust for granted, and ask themselves why they lost that trust at first place.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Would you kindly point me to a lie anywhere on the current front pages of the New York Times, Guardian, Atlantic, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal, or Economist?
  - visarga 10y ago
    Like, right now or in general?
    - lawless123 10y ago
      Like, anything reaching the level of "Obama is a muslim commie anti-christ" that i have seen coming from right wing click-bait pages?
      - 551199 10y ago
        How about: 'Trump is nazi, against lgbt, racist, rapist, russian agent, going to nuke the planet' etc.
        johnward 10y ago
        Source showing this in "New York Times, Guardian, Atlantic, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal, or Economist".
        551199 10y ago
        Did you not follow the election cycle? It has been all about false accusations about Trump. Russian agent: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/world/europe/donald-trump-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/world/europe/donald-trump... And the golden shower thing is fake news.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        untog 10y ago
        That story came from a leaked report written by a well-respected former intelligence officer. The article does not state them as fact, instead remarks on the source of the unverified information, and gives background on Russian blackmail intelligence operations. That's not fake news. And the whole reason anyone was writing about it was because Buzzfeed published the memo - other news organisations had a copy of it for months but didn't publish, specifically because they couldn't verify the information.
        551199 10y ago
        That report was completely fabricated. Talk about fake news.
        untog 10y ago
    - MarkMc 10y ago
      Let's say now or any time in the past 10 years...
  - facetube 10y ago
    More specifically: point us to a lie of the kind of severity that http://usainfonews.com http://usainfonews.com and http://usapoliticszone.com http://usapoliticszone.com peddle. Do a WHOIS on those sites or visit them in a sandbox; they're Macedonian in origin, demonstrably falsified, and have been spotted in the wild on Facebook.
    - em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
      what does the phrase "Macedonian in origin" mean? I googled that and google is telling me about the historical origins of Macedonia. Are you making up that phrase? Are your trying to imply that the sources are ancient from a long time ago? Or do you mean they have "questionable" origins. If so, just say "questionable origins".
      - burkaman 10y ago
        Macedonia is still around, that's a literal phrase. I don't know how you would tell from WHOIS, but apparently a lot of people in Macedonia are responsible for the most egregious fake news sites: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281
        em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
        thanks for clarifying!
        facetube 10y ago
        Here's what I get from `whois usapoliticszone.com`. It's possible that the information is falsified, but it's hard to understand why a legitimate well-researched news site would list an individual in Macedonia with ICANN when they registered a domain: Domain Name: usapoliticszone.com Registry Domain ID: 2060737897_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com http://www.godaddy.com Update Date: 2016-09-20T18:54:39Z Creation Date: 2016-09-20T18:54:39Z Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-09-20T18:54:39Z Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC Registrar IANA ID: 146 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry Registrant Name: Angelina Gjorgjievska Registrant Organization: Registrant Street: Vera Ciriviri 177 Registrant City: Veles Registrant State/Province: Macedonia, Veles Registrant Postal Code: 1400 Registrant Country: MK Registrant Phone: +389.78459172 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: healthyclub247@gmail.com
- ZeroGravitas 10y ago
  Is this true? It reminds me of the talk about how "diet advice changes constantly" but even given the very human foibles in any recommended diet (e.g. genuine mistakes, oversimplifying to communicate better, industry pressure, inertia in the face of new evidence) I still don't remember anyone saying "fruit and vegetables are bad for you" or "eat as many calories as you like, it's cool", "don't exercise, that's for suckers" or anything on that scale, so while you can bring up specific issues, they'll be blips in the big picture. I'd guess the same applies to attacks on "the mainstream media".
  - zeroer 10y ago
    > fruit and vegetables are bad for you Fruit is very easy to eat to excess, especially when you labor under the delusion that it couldn't be bad for you, as you seem to be doing. The problem is that it has a ton of sugar in it. You can gain weight and raise your blood sugar to unhealthy levels pretty quick just eating extra fruit.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      This is a perfect example of the kind of hyper-focus that loses track of the big picture and just becomes nonsensical as a result. Fruit is not a threat to your health, even diabetics are encouraged to eat more fruit. On the list of foods that can cause you to gain weight and raise your blood sugar to unhealthy levels it's way down the list, with a low glycemic load, and it actually provides fibre and other benefits that many things on that list don't.
- facetube 10y ago
  This doesn't stand up to evidence. A large portion of the fake news in closed political Facebook groups is actually fake – it's Macedonian in origin, tends to use throwaway domains like http://usainfonews.com http://usainfonews.com and http://usapoliticszone.com http://usapoliticszone.com (seriously, do a WHOIS on those), uses plagiarized and/or demonstrably false content, and results in compensation for the people who post it. The purported compensation often far outstrips what anyone could reasonably expect from advertising revenue. You can join these groups and watch Americans comment on the stories – apparently believing the blatantly false news stories, by the thousands. 1: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-news-how-partying-macedonian-teen-earns-thousands-publishing-lies-n692451 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-news-how-partying-mac... 2: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-news-macedonia-teen-shows-how-its-done/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-news-macedonia-teen-shows-h... 3: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 4: https://www.ft.com/content/333fe6bc-c1ea-11e6-81c2-f57d90f6741a https://www.ft.com/content/333fe6bc-c1ea-11e6-81c2-f57d90f67... 5: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/macedonian-teen-claims-trump-supporters-paid-him-60k-to-produce-fake-news-during-campaign_us_584ac403e4b0bd9c3dfc51b7 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/macedonian-teen-claims-t... 6: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/14/505547295/fake-news-expert-on-how-false-stories-spread-and-why-people-believe-them http://www.npr.org/2016/12/14/505547295/fake-news-expert-on-... 7: http://www.msnbc.com/kate-snow/watch/macedonian-teen-capitalizes-on-fake-news-829396547914 http://www.msnbc.com/kate-snow/watch/macedonian-teen-capital... 8: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2016/12/02/teen-explains-macedonian-fake-news-hub.html http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2016/...
TeMPOraL 10y ago
> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. But really? As far as I can tell, they optimize solely for inducing outrage, because this drives sales/pageviews. The quality of your Facebook feed depends on the quality of your friends, which I find more reliable than regular media.
kalleboo 10y ago
> However the masses of Facebook have no such obligation. Assuming you're in the U.S. and part of the majority culture, "thou shalt not tell a lie"?
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  As an American, I would argue that's an ideal that we don't generally expect most people to keep all of the time.
em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. A newspaper ultimately has an obligation to its stockholders. If the stockholders demand that the newspaper tells the truth, then so be it...but most stockholders would want to maximize profits. If they believe telling the truth will maximize profits, then they will probably encourage that, but it likely doesn't.

A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. However the masses of Facebook have no such obligation.

by tbrock 10y ago

A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. However the masses of Facebook have no such obligation.

dTal 10y ago

Don't we all?

camus2 10y ago

> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. Very few people read newspapers. And even then, newspapers aren't news anymore either, it's entertainment, using emotion to deliver "news", not facts nor reason. It's all about getting the audience "triggered". This whole "fake news" thing is so hypocrite, what "trusted" news don't understand is that they lied so much in the past people stopped trusting them. That's why people check "alternative news sources". Main stream media needs to stop taking readers trust for granted, and ask themselves why they lost that trust at first place.

matt4077 10y ago
Would you kindly point me to a lie anywhere on the current front pages of the New York Times, Guardian, Atlantic, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal, or Economist?
- visarga 10y ago
  Like, right now or in general?
  - lawless123 10y ago
    Like, anything reaching the level of "Obama is a muslim commie anti-christ" that i have seen coming from right wing click-bait pages?
    - 551199 10y ago
      How about: 'Trump is nazi, against lgbt, racist, rapist, russian agent, going to nuke the planet' etc.
      - johnward 10y ago
        Source showing this in "New York Times, Guardian, Atlantic, New Yorker, Wall Street Journal, or Economist".
        551199 10y ago
        Did you not follow the election cycle? It has been all about false accusations about Trump. Russian agent: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/world/europe/donald-trump-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/world/europe/donald-trump... And the golden shower thing is fake news.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
        untog 10y ago
        That story came from a leaked report written by a well-respected former intelligence officer. The article does not state them as fact, instead remarks on the source of the unverified information, and gives background on Russian blackmail intelligence operations. That's not fake news. And the whole reason anyone was writing about it was because Buzzfeed published the memo - other news organisations had a copy of it for months but didn't publish, specifically because they couldn't verify the information.
        551199 10y ago
        That report was completely fabricated. Talk about fake news.
        untog 10y ago
  - MarkMc 10y ago
    Let's say now or any time in the past 10 years...
- facetube 10y ago
  More specifically: point us to a lie of the kind of severity that http://usainfonews.com http://usainfonews.com and http://usapoliticszone.com http://usapoliticszone.com peddle. Do a WHOIS on those sites or visit them in a sandbox; they're Macedonian in origin, demonstrably falsified, and have been spotted in the wild on Facebook.
  - em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
    what does the phrase "Macedonian in origin" mean? I googled that and google is telling me about the historical origins of Macedonia. Are you making up that phrase? Are your trying to imply that the sources are ancient from a long time ago? Or do you mean they have "questionable" origins. If so, just say "questionable origins".
    - burkaman 10y ago
      Macedonia is still around, that's a literal phrase. I don't know how you would tell from WHOIS, but apparently a lot of people in Macedonia are responsible for the most egregious fake news sites: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281
      - em3rgent0rdr 10y ago
        thanks for clarifying!
      - facetube 10y ago
        Here's what I get from `whois usapoliticszone.com`. It's possible that the information is falsified, but it's hard to understand why a legitimate well-researched news site would list an individual in Macedonia with ICANN when they registered a domain: Domain Name: usapoliticszone.com Registry Domain ID: 2060737897_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com http://www.godaddy.com Update Date: 2016-09-20T18:54:39Z Creation Date: 2016-09-20T18:54:39Z Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-09-20T18:54:39Z Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC Registrar IANA ID: 146 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.com Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4806242505 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited Registry Registrant ID: Not Available From Registry Registrant Name: Angelina Gjorgjievska Registrant Organization: Registrant Street: Vera Ciriviri 177 Registrant City: Veles Registrant State/Province: Macedonia, Veles Registrant Postal Code: 1400 Registrant Country: MK Registrant Phone: +389.78459172 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: healthyclub247@gmail.com
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
Is this true? It reminds me of the talk about how "diet advice changes constantly" but even given the very human foibles in any recommended diet (e.g. genuine mistakes, oversimplifying to communicate better, industry pressure, inertia in the face of new evidence) I still don't remember anyone saying "fruit and vegetables are bad for you" or "eat as many calories as you like, it's cool", "don't exercise, that's for suckers" or anything on that scale, so while you can bring up specific issues, they'll be blips in the big picture. I'd guess the same applies to attacks on "the mainstream media".
- zeroer 10y ago
  > fruit and vegetables are bad for you Fruit is very easy to eat to excess, especially when you labor under the delusion that it couldn't be bad for you, as you seem to be doing. The problem is that it has a ton of sugar in it. You can gain weight and raise your blood sugar to unhealthy levels pretty quick just eating extra fruit.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    This is a perfect example of the kind of hyper-focus that loses track of the big picture and just becomes nonsensical as a result. Fruit is not a threat to your health, even diabetics are encouraged to eat more fruit. On the list of foods that can cause you to gain weight and raise your blood sugar to unhealthy levels it's way down the list, with a low glycemic load, and it actually provides fibre and other benefits that many things on that list don't.
facetube 10y ago
This doesn't stand up to evidence. A large portion of the fake news in closed political Facebook groups is actually fake – it's Macedonian in origin, tends to use throwaway domains like http://usainfonews.com http://usainfonews.com and http://usapoliticszone.com http://usapoliticszone.com (seriously, do a WHOIS on those), uses plagiarized and/or demonstrably false content, and results in compensation for the people who post it. The purported compensation often far outstrips what anyone could reasonably expect from advertising revenue. You can join these groups and watch Americans comment on the stories – apparently believing the blatantly false news stories, by the thousands. 1: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-news-how-partying-macedonian-teen-earns-thousands-publishing-lies-n692451 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-news-how-partying-mac... 2: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-news-macedonia-teen-shows-how-its-done/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fake-news-macedonia-teen-shows-h... 3: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281 4: https://www.ft.com/content/333fe6bc-c1ea-11e6-81c2-f57d90f6741a https://www.ft.com/content/333fe6bc-c1ea-11e6-81c2-f57d90f67... 5: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/macedonian-teen-claims-trump-supporters-paid-him-60k-to-produce-fake-news-during-campaign_us_584ac403e4b0bd9c3dfc51b7 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/macedonian-teen-claims-t... 6: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/14/505547295/fake-news-expert-on-how-false-stories-spread-and-why-people-believe-them http://www.npr.org/2016/12/14/505547295/fake-news-expert-on-... 7: http://www.msnbc.com/kate-snow/watch/macedonian-teen-capitalizes-on-fake-news-829396547914 http://www.msnbc.com/kate-snow/watch/macedonian-teen-capital... 8: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2016/12/02/teen-explains-macedonian-fake-news-hub.html http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/national_world/2016/...

TeMPOraL 10y ago

> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. But really? As far as I can tell, they optimize solely for inducing outrage, because this drives sales/pageviews. The quality of your Facebook feed depends on the quality of your friends, which I find more reliable than regular media.

kalleboo 10y ago

> However the masses of Facebook have no such obligation. Assuming you're in the U.S. and part of the majority culture, "thou shalt not tell a lie"?

CaptSpify 10y ago
As an American, I would argue that's an ideal that we don't generally expect most people to keep all of the time.

em3rgent0rdr 10y ago

> A newspaper at least might have some sort of moral obligation to tell the truth. A newspaper ultimately has an obligation to its stockholders. If the stockholders demand that the newspaper tells the truth, then so be it...but most stockholders would want to maximize profits. If they believe telling the truth will maximize profits, then they will probably encourage that, but it likely doesn't.