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You can now have a website secured by a certificate issued by a Google CA, hosted on Google web infrastructure, with a domain registered using Google Domains, r

by aduffy 10y ago

You can now have a website secured by a certificate issued by a Google CA, hosted on Google web infrastructure, with a domain registered using Google Domains, resolved using Google Public DNS, going over Google Fiber, in Google Chrome on a Google Chromebook. Google has officially vertically integrated the Internet.

spullara 10y ago
Funded mostly by you looking at Google Ads.
- dorgo 10y ago
  Nope. Funded mostly by you clicking at Google Ads. Looking is for free.
  - spullara 10y ago
    Remember they own DoubleClick, the biggest banner ad platform. https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/177222?hl=en https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/177222?hl=en
cuckcuckspruce 10y ago
AOL is dead, long live AOL!/s For serious though, there's not really any lock-in here (yet). You could replace everything from the certificate through the public DNS with GoDaddy and things would work just fine. I don't really see Google moving to close the web parts of this.
- viraptor 10y ago
  We still need to make choices that guarantee it's the case in the future. We need to ensure we don't end up with environment as diverse as email where most people use Gmail, or Linux services which are all being rewritten under systemd, or many other cases where we voluntarily choose a monoculture that can force our choices in the future...
  - exolymph 10y ago
    > We need to ensure we don't end up with environment as diverse as email where most people use Gmail Good luck making something that's both 1) the most convenient and 2) not centralized.
    - xj9 10y ago
      good luck? with that attitude you deserve shitty centralized systems that spy on you. decentralization and ease of use aren't contradictory anyway. remember bit torrent? used to be very popular, even among less technical users. great UX too. click a magnet link and you have your content in a flash. the problem is that there isn't a multi-billion dollar business case for decentralized user systems. a lot of server/dc tech is both decentralized and distributed because it is a more robust architecture. again, the reason this doesn't extend to the consumer is because it give them too much control and clogs up the revenue stream. this isn't a technical or usability problem, as you claim. this is 100% economic.
      - dpark 10y ago
        Spam blocking is a problem that's very difficult to solve without massive scale. Decentralized email used to suck for filtering spam because they simply didn't have the scale needed to recognize spam reliably. WordPress solved the spam issue for decentralized blog comments by centralizing it, which gives them the scale to solve it well but also gives them the ability to read probably half the blog comments on the web in real time.
        grincho 10y ago
        No, it really isn't. Download a copy of SpamAssassin, train it on 400 hand-picked spams from your own mailbox, train it on 400 arbitrary hams as well, and you will have very accurate spam filtering. I was shocked how well it worked; I run my own mail personally and use GMail at work, and the results are (subjectively) indistinguishable. A Dovecot plugin that keeps the Bayesian numbers up to date as I move messages in and out of the Spam and Archive (for ham) folder completes the picture. To go deeper, it turns out that Bayesian filtering is remarkably resilient. Even attacks which try to poison your filters by including ham-like content in spams are ineffective, because spammers cannot very accurately predict what your own particular flavor of ham is like. (People don't often mail me passages from out-of-copyright Victorian romance novels.) I find that a few botnet-reducing SMTP heuristics plus Bayesian is sufficient; I dallied with some of the fanciness that compares known-spam hashes with other people, but it turned out not to be necessary.
- kuschku 10y ago
  > I don't really see Google moving to close the web parts of this. Google actively restricts which programs and extensions you can install on a Chromebook and Android, Google restricts what you can publish on their infrastructure, and AMP is also becoming somewhat of a problem. On Android, Google killed all other push notification services (and tries to prevent people from writing open source libraries for theirs), by only allowing notifications from Google Cloud Messaging to work when the device is saving battery (basically always on recent versions). After trying to fight this for quite a while, I do really see Google moving to close this.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
Cyph0n 10y ago
What's remaining is: server written in Go, running on a Google server OS, located on a Google designed server appliance, which is centrally controlled by a Google designed microprocessor, which is finally manufactured in a Google owned semiconductor foundry. Oh, and the sand used for silicon purification is sourced from a Google-owned stretch of beach. I haven't considered the internals of the datacenter though...
- kyrra 10y ago
  Go poke around: https://research.google.com/pubs/papers.html https://research.google.com/pubs/papers.html You will see lots of custom stuff that Google does. There are many things that are better to outsource to 3rd parties, but many things are better in-house because the solutions just don't exist or they cost too much for the volume they need. Some examples: Network routers for CLOS topology (there are pictures of some of the hardware): https://research.google.com/pubs/pub43837.html https://research.google.com/pubs/pub43837.html Custom built SSDs (custom firmware/controller with a mix of flash chips from various vendors): https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/fast16/fast16-papers-schroeder.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/fast16/fast16... Then you the TPU custom chip for running Tensorflow.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    Interesting stuff. I've heard about the TPU chip but not the rest. They're still eons away from e.g. Intel or Samsung when it comes to vertical integration on the hardware side. I believe that Samsung is the only company in the world that is capable of building an entire computer (e.g., laptop or smartphone) from scratch completely in-house. They can design software and OSes AND manufacture SoCs, memory, LED panels, etc. It's very impressive.
    - kr0 10y ago
      On that note it would be really interesting to see the percentage breakdown of who's IP made your phone/laptop/etc
  - ra1n85 10y ago
elastic_church 10y ago
so like Amazon.
- komali2 10y ago
  There's an Amazon ISP?
  - rmhrisk 10y ago
    https://www.amazontrust.com https://www.amazontrust.com
    - richardwhiuk 10y ago
      To clarify, that's a CA, not an ISP
      - dx034 10y ago
        But as Google wants to stop the Fiber project, they will also stop being one. Apparently being an ISP adds no value to the rest.
        nickjarboe 10y ago
        I wonder, with Alphabet's investment in SpaceX, if they see satilite as the future instead of fiber.
joshbaptiste 10y ago
And you sure are added to my favorite comment if the week, Indeed Google wants to be the complete stack.
return0 10y ago
And monetized and paid for through google ads. It's your life, packaged.
MrBra 10y ago
And you can discover such website using Google (the search engine).

by aduffy 10y ago

spullara 10y ago

Funded mostly by you looking at Google Ads.

dorgo 10y ago
Nope. Funded mostly by you clicking at Google Ads. Looking is for free.
- spullara 10y ago
  Remember they own DoubleClick, the biggest banner ad platform. https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/177222?hl=en https://support.google.com/dfp_premium/answer/177222?hl=en

cuckcuckspruce 10y ago

AOL is dead, long live AOL!/s For serious though, there's not really any lock-in here (yet). You could replace everything from the certificate through the public DNS with GoDaddy and things would work just fine. I don't really see Google moving to close the web parts of this.

viraptor 10y ago
We still need to make choices that guarantee it's the case in the future. We need to ensure we don't end up with environment as diverse as email where most people use Gmail, or Linux services which are all being rewritten under systemd, or many other cases where we voluntarily choose a monoculture that can force our choices in the future...
- exolymph 10y ago
  > We need to ensure we don't end up with environment as diverse as email where most people use Gmail Good luck making something that's both 1) the most convenient and 2) not centralized.
  - xj9 10y ago
    good luck? with that attitude you deserve shitty centralized systems that spy on you. decentralization and ease of use aren't contradictory anyway. remember bit torrent? used to be very popular, even among less technical users. great UX too. click a magnet link and you have your content in a flash. the problem is that there isn't a multi-billion dollar business case for decentralized user systems. a lot of server/dc tech is both decentralized and distributed because it is a more robust architecture. again, the reason this doesn't extend to the consumer is because it give them too much control and clogs up the revenue stream. this isn't a technical or usability problem, as you claim. this is 100% economic.
    - dpark 10y ago
      Spam blocking is a problem that's very difficult to solve without massive scale. Decentralized email used to suck for filtering spam because they simply didn't have the scale needed to recognize spam reliably. WordPress solved the spam issue for decentralized blog comments by centralizing it, which gives them the scale to solve it well but also gives them the ability to read probably half the blog comments on the web in real time.
      - grincho 10y ago
        No, it really isn't. Download a copy of SpamAssassin, train it on 400 hand-picked spams from your own mailbox, train it on 400 arbitrary hams as well, and you will have very accurate spam filtering. I was shocked how well it worked; I run my own mail personally and use GMail at work, and the results are (subjectively) indistinguishable. A Dovecot plugin that keeps the Bayesian numbers up to date as I move messages in and out of the Spam and Archive (for ham) folder completes the picture. To go deeper, it turns out that Bayesian filtering is remarkably resilient. Even attacks which try to poison your filters by including ham-like content in spams are ineffective, because spammers cannot very accurately predict what your own particular flavor of ham is like. (People don't often mail me passages from out-of-copyright Victorian romance novels.) I find that a few botnet-reducing SMTP heuristics plus Bayesian is sufficient; I dallied with some of the fanciness that compares known-spam hashes with other people, but it turned out not to be necessary.
kuschku 10y ago
> I don't really see Google moving to close the web parts of this. Google actively restricts which programs and extensions you can install on a Chromebook and Android, Google restricts what you can publish on their infrastructure, and AMP is also becoming somewhat of a problem. On Android, Google killed all other push notification services (and tries to prevent people from writing open source libraries for theirs), by only allowing notifications from Google Cloud Messaging to work when the device is saving battery (basically always on recent versions). After trying to fight this for quite a while, I do really see Google moving to close this.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

Cyph0n 10y ago

What's remaining is: server written in Go, running on a Google server OS, located on a Google designed server appliance, which is centrally controlled by a Google designed microprocessor, which is finally manufactured in a Google owned semiconductor foundry. Oh, and the sand used for silicon purification is sourced from a Google-owned stretch of beach. I haven't considered the internals of the datacenter though...

kyrra 10y ago
Go poke around: https://research.google.com/pubs/papers.html https://research.google.com/pubs/papers.html You will see lots of custom stuff that Google does. There are many things that are better to outsource to 3rd parties, but many things are better in-house because the solutions just don't exist or they cost too much for the volume they need. Some examples: Network routers for CLOS topology (there are pictures of some of the hardware): https://research.google.com/pubs/pub43837.html https://research.google.com/pubs/pub43837.html Custom built SSDs (custom firmware/controller with a mix of flash chips from various vendors): https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/fast16/fast16-papers-schroeder.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/fast16/fast16... Then you the TPU custom chip for running Tensorflow.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Interesting stuff. I've heard about the TPU chip but not the rest. They're still eons away from e.g. Intel or Samsung when it comes to vertical integration on the hardware side. I believe that Samsung is the only company in the world that is capable of building an entire computer (e.g., laptop or smartphone) from scratch completely in-house. They can design software and OSes AND manufacture SoCs, memory, LED panels, etc. It's very impressive.
  - kr0 10y ago
    On that note it would be really interesting to see the percentage breakdown of who's IP made your phone/laptop/etc
- ra1n85 10y ago

elastic_church 10y ago

so like Amazon.

komali2 10y ago
There's an Amazon ISP?
- rmhrisk 10y ago
  https://www.amazontrust.com https://www.amazontrust.com
  - richardwhiuk 10y ago
    To clarify, that's a CA, not an ISP
    - dx034 10y ago
      But as Google wants to stop the Fiber project, they will also stop being one. Apparently being an ISP adds no value to the rest.
      - nickjarboe 10y ago
        I wonder, with Alphabet's investment in SpaceX, if they see satilite as the future instead of fiber.

joshbaptiste 10y ago

And you sure are added to my favorite comment if the week, Indeed Google wants to be the complete stack.

return0 10y ago

And monetized and paid for through google ads. It's your life, packaged.

MrBra 10y ago

And you can discover such website using Google (the search engine).