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> Compare this to languages like Python where there will need to be a major 2020 conversion to 3.x because many developers are dragging their feet. That's not

> Compare this to languages like Python where there will need to be a major 2020 conversion to 3.x because many developers are dragging their feet. That's not a very fair comparison. Python is 25 years old and this migration is being requested after 20 years in existence. There is no way a successful language can perform this kind of migration at that age without pain. Swift will be no exception if it's still around and popular in 20 years.

melling 10y ago
Yes, I understand that the conversion is in some ways more difficult because there's a larger legacy code base. However, the conversion has already been extended 5 years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581434 A decade long conversion is fine if that is what the community wants. There are certain drawbacks to this. I simply like the aggressiveness that Apple has taken. The community can put "all its wood behind one arrow".
- hota_mazi 10y ago
  I like the aggressiveness too but it's pretty common for very young languages because the cost is so low. Swift is not doing anything new there.
  - melling 10y ago
    Really? I've been programming for almost 35 years and I can't think of many languages that made such big changes. Java, for example, is still compatible with 1.0.
    - hota_mazi 10y ago
      Java is one language among hundreds that have come out these past twenty years.
      - melling 10y ago
        Yes, I know that. You could provide your examples of some other popular languages that we all know about. Sure, it's easy to change a language no one uses, but when you've got hundreds of thousands of users, it's much harder.
breatheoften 10y ago
pain(x) = Language upgrade pain after x years of development. That seems like a somewhat objective concept -- about which it is fairly hard to make guesses ... If I _had_ to guess though, because of the static type system and the process guiding swift's evolution, I would hazard that Swift 23 -> Swift 24 will be significantly easier than python 2 -> python 3 ...

melling 10y ago

Yes, I understand that the conversion is in some ways more difficult because there's a larger legacy code base. However, the conversion has already been extended 5 years: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581434 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7581434 A decade long conversion is fine if that is what the community wants. There are certain drawbacks to this. I simply like the aggressiveness that Apple has taken. The community can put "all its wood behind one arrow".

hota_mazi 10y ago
I like the aggressiveness too but it's pretty common for very young languages because the cost is so low. Swift is not doing anything new there.
- melling 10y ago
  Really? I've been programming for almost 35 years and I can't think of many languages that made such big changes. Java, for example, is still compatible with 1.0.
  - hota_mazi 10y ago
    Java is one language among hundreds that have come out these past twenty years.
    - melling 10y ago
      Yes, I know that. You could provide your examples of some other popular languages that we all know about. Sure, it's easy to change a language no one uses, but when you've got hundreds of thousands of users, it's much harder.

breatheoften 10y ago

pain(x) = Language upgrade pain after x years of development. That seems like a somewhat objective concept -- about which it is fairly hard to make guesses ... If I _had_ to guess though, because of the static type system and the process guiding swift's evolution, I would hazard that Swift 23 -> Swift 24 will be significantly easier than python 2 -> python 3 ...