4 ms·

This doesn't appear to include student offices, which, especially at large state universities, are very powerful and misunderstood. If you are a student, consi

by jMyles 10y ago

This doesn't appear to include student offices, which, especially at large state universities, are very powerful and misunderstood. If you are a student, consider running for student office. It's likely (in fact almost certain) that your student government makes more decisions that impact your life and spends more of your money than the national government does. They typically have multi-million dollar budgets, seats on powerful state-wide committees where tens or hundreds of millions are spent, and the ability to impact academic policy for students of the next generation. Some also run sprawling field campuses, nature preserves or camps. I'm particularly fond of one that is run by the Albany Student Gov: Dippikill. Very special place. Students in decades past fought very hard for the power and placement that today's student governments enjoy, and education "administrators" are always looking to carve them out and take them away. They need to be continually defended and used.

skolor 10y ago
Apparently they're looking for volunteers (http://getinvolved.runforoffice.org/volunteer http://getinvolved.runforoffice.org/volunteer). I'm not involved with the project (although seriously considering volunteering), and it looks like they mostly just have scraped state/federal senate/congress/governor information and plugged it in, but aim to add more.
- jimterrapin 10y ago
  We have all of the positions in the following counties, as well as all Federal, State, State legislative positions: County State Population Los Angeles County CA 10,100,000 New York City NY 8,400,000 Cook County IL 5,200,000 Harris County TX 4,300,000 Maricopa County AZ 4,000,000 San Diego County CA 3,200,000 Orange County CA 3,100,000 Miami-Dade County FL 2,600,000 Dallas County TX 2,480,000 Riverside County CA 2,290,000 San Bernardino County CA 2,000,000 Clark County NV 2,000,000 King County WA 2,000,000 Tarrant County TX 1,900,000 Broward County FL 1,835,000 Bexar County TX 1,818,000 Santa Clara County CA 1,800,000 Wayne County MI 1,775,000 Alameda County CA 1,580,000 Philadelphia PA 1,500,000 Sacramento County CA 1,445,000 Palm Beach County FL 1,370,000 Nassau County NY 1,350,000 Cuyahoga County OH 1,270,294 Hillsborough County FL 1,267,775 Orange County FL 1,169,107 Fairfax County VA 1,130,000 Contra Costa County CA 1,066,000 St. Louis County MO 1,000,000 Honolulu County HI 980,000 Bergen County NJ 938,000 DuPage County IL 917,000 Duval County FL 886,000 Ventura County CA 839,000 Pierce County WA 819,700 Montgomery County PA 812,000 San Francisco County CA 800,000 Multnomah County OR 766,100 Washington DC 658,000 Denver CO 649,000 East Baton Rouge Parish LA 445,200 St. Louis City MO 318,400 Livingston Parish LA 134,000 Ascension Parish LA 114,000 Grand Forks County ND 69,000 Lee County IA 36,000 County populations covered: 85,127,576
_delirium 10y ago
Although it can still be used as a bully pulpit and sometimes extract concessions by producing enough bad press or student anger, I think alas that a lot of what you mention in your last sentence has already happened. On the University of California Board of Regents, for example, students have 1 out of 26 seats, and in recent years are usually in the minority on votes, so the student representative is there more or less to cast a token protest vote against something that happens anyway. (The real power is held by a bunch of political nepotists, cronies, donors, and hedge-fund moguls who have no experience in education, and were appointed due to qualifications like "is Dianne Feinstein's husband" and "donated a lot of money to Arnie's campaign".)
- jMyles 10y ago
  Even one student on the board can prevent improper use of executive session, which is a huge problem in education politics.
  - anigbrowl 10y ago
    Being the canary in the coal mine isn't exactly a win. It's important without being powerful.
apsec112 10y ago
"Almost certain" seems like an exaggeration. At my college (Yale), the "student government" was basically just a committee to plan Spring Fling. You can see their budget online: https://www.ycc.yale.edu/budget/ https://www.ycc.yale.edu/budget/
- jMyles 10y ago
  Right right - I meant more at public universities. Presumably at Yale and other prestigious private schools, students (and student governments) have ways of exerting power other than the budget. I'm not sure that's true, but I think that's a presumption that people make when thinking about education politics.
  - akhilcacharya 10y ago
    And people wonder if the elites can get out of their bubble...
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > "Almost certain" seems like an exaggeration. At my college (Yale), the "student government" was basically just a committee to plan Spring Fling. You can see their budget online: As a counterpoint, Columbia's student government is quite powerful. There are multiple levels (with different domains of influence), but the most powerful is the student senate - each school is allotted two (I think) student senators, and they have the same level of authority as the senators representing the faculty, etc. Columbia also has a long history of political activism and public protest, and the University Senate was actually established in the wake of the most famous of these[0], to provide students with a structured outlet for supporting or opposing university policies that did not involve literally occupying buildings on campus. As far as elected representation within a private institution goes, it's not perfect, but it's pretty well-executed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of_1968 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_o...
  - coulombian 10y ago
    The Columbia undergraduate student government was also basically just party planners, in addition to being a feeble roadblock to university policies. The truly powerful group was the student-run Activities Board, which distributes student life fees to a hundred or so student clubs and groups. (Of course, all student governments and groups are subject to administrative oversight and override.)
drdeadringer 10y ago
Where I went to school, becoming a student senator for a given club was a simple matter "Sure, I'll do it". It was fun.
- 3825 10y ago
  > Where I went to school, becoming a student senator for a given club was a simple matter "Sure, I'll do it". It was fun. Same here but getting anything done is tremendously difficult. Even something simple like extended hours for the cafeteria (it was a tiny school) takes multiple semesters with being bounced back and forth between administration and Sodexo. My understand is that they'll gladly (one time) throw money at you if you say the right words but they are very cautious about anything that sounds like a long term commitment.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lostlogin 10y ago
Far more selfishly - you often get a few subsidy too.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> This doesn't appear to include student offices Eligibility to run for student offices is generally not at all tied to where your ZIP code of legal residence, which is the only criteria it uses. So, without substantial redesign of its search model, I don't see how it could meaningfully handle them. Which isn't to say those offices aren't important at some schools, just doesn't seem like a good fit for the model of this tool.
- curun1r 10y ago
  The search already returns results for offices which you may be eligible for, not which you are eligible for. For example, my results include my state's Attorney General office, despite there being a requirement that candidates be admitted to the state's bar for 5 years prior to running for office. The vast majority of searchers will not be eligible for that office. It seems reasonable that anyone living in a zip code within a geofence around a university could have those student government positions returned, but with eligibility requirements clearly stated. In general, the eligibility requirements also need to be more clear. In my example, the bar requirement is real but wasn't listed on the site.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    Yes, that's an issue that could some refinement, but it's different than the issue with student government where eligibility is tied to enrollment, not legal residency, which may be very remote from the institution. So, for most student government positions at universities, would have to show up as possible eligible positions for all searchers with a model which uses zip code of residence as the only criteria and prefers risking false positives to false negatives. That's pretty useless, which is why I say student government is a bad fit for the model.
djent 10y ago
I'm Speaker of my student parliament at my college. It is not as grand as you describe it. We only get about $250,000/semester from the college. We are actually incorporated as a non-profit through our state's general assembly, so our college has limited control over us. We have limited seats on our college's committees, and we have committees of our own which are majority-student. Committees like the Board of Education in our state have one student member from all the public higher education institutions, and they're appointed by the president of the college rather than by our student government. Our student government hasn't made huge progress on any major student issue.

by jMyles 10y ago

skolor 10y ago

Apparently they're looking for volunteers (http://getinvolved.runforoffice.org/volunteer http://getinvolved.runforoffice.org/volunteer). I'm not involved with the project (although seriously considering volunteering), and it looks like they mostly just have scraped state/federal senate/congress/governor information and plugged it in, but aim to add more.

jimterrapin 10y ago
We have all of the positions in the following counties, as well as all Federal, State, State legislative positions: County State Population Los Angeles County CA 10,100,000 New York City NY 8,400,000 Cook County IL 5,200,000 Harris County TX 4,300,000 Maricopa County AZ 4,000,000 San Diego County CA 3,200,000 Orange County CA 3,100,000 Miami-Dade County FL 2,600,000 Dallas County TX 2,480,000 Riverside County CA 2,290,000 San Bernardino County CA 2,000,000 Clark County NV 2,000,000 King County WA 2,000,000 Tarrant County TX 1,900,000 Broward County FL 1,835,000 Bexar County TX 1,818,000 Santa Clara County CA 1,800,000 Wayne County MI 1,775,000 Alameda County CA 1,580,000 Philadelphia PA 1,500,000 Sacramento County CA 1,445,000 Palm Beach County FL 1,370,000 Nassau County NY 1,350,000 Cuyahoga County OH 1,270,294 Hillsborough County FL 1,267,775 Orange County FL 1,169,107 Fairfax County VA 1,130,000 Contra Costa County CA 1,066,000 St. Louis County MO 1,000,000 Honolulu County HI 980,000 Bergen County NJ 938,000 DuPage County IL 917,000 Duval County FL 886,000 Ventura County CA 839,000 Pierce County WA 819,700 Montgomery County PA 812,000 San Francisco County CA 800,000 Multnomah County OR 766,100 Washington DC 658,000 Denver CO 649,000 East Baton Rouge Parish LA 445,200 St. Louis City MO 318,400 Livingston Parish LA 134,000 Ascension Parish LA 114,000 Grand Forks County ND 69,000 Lee County IA 36,000 County populations covered: 85,127,576

_delirium 10y ago

Although it can still be used as a bully pulpit and sometimes extract concessions by producing enough bad press or student anger, I think alas that a lot of what you mention in your last sentence has already happened. On the University of California Board of Regents, for example, students have 1 out of 26 seats, and in recent years are usually in the minority on votes, so the student representative is there more or less to cast a token protest vote against something that happens anyway. (The real power is held by a bunch of political nepotists, cronies, donors, and hedge-fund moguls who have no experience in education, and were appointed due to qualifications like "is Dianne Feinstein's husband" and "donated a lot of money to Arnie's campaign".)

jMyles 10y ago
Even one student on the board can prevent improper use of executive session, which is a huge problem in education politics.
- anigbrowl 10y ago
  Being the canary in the coal mine isn't exactly a win. It's important without being powerful.

apsec112 10y ago

"Almost certain" seems like an exaggeration. At my college (Yale), the "student government" was basically just a committee to plan Spring Fling. You can see their budget online: https://www.ycc.yale.edu/budget/ https://www.ycc.yale.edu/budget/

jMyles 10y ago
Right right - I meant more at public universities. Presumably at Yale and other prestigious private schools, students (and student governments) have ways of exerting power other than the budget. I'm not sure that's true, but I think that's a presumption that people make when thinking about education politics.
- akhilcacharya 10y ago
  And people wonder if the elites can get out of their bubble...
chimeracoder 10y ago
> "Almost certain" seems like an exaggeration. At my college (Yale), the "student government" was basically just a committee to plan Spring Fling. You can see their budget online: As a counterpoint, Columbia's student government is quite powerful. There are multiple levels (with different domains of influence), but the most powerful is the student senate - each school is allotted two (I think) student senators, and they have the same level of authority as the senators representing the faculty, etc. Columbia also has a long history of political activism and public protest, and the University Senate was actually established in the wake of the most famous of these[0], to provide students with a structured outlet for supporting or opposing university policies that did not involve literally occupying buildings on campus. As far as elected representation within a private institution goes, it's not perfect, but it's pretty well-executed. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of_1968 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_o...
- coulombian 10y ago
  The Columbia undergraduate student government was also basically just party planners, in addition to being a feeble roadblock to university policies. The truly powerful group was the student-run Activities Board, which distributes student life fees to a hundred or so student clubs and groups. (Of course, all student governments and groups are subject to administrative oversight and override.)

drdeadringer 10y ago

Where I went to school, becoming a student senator for a given club was a simple matter "Sure, I'll do it". It was fun.

3825 10y ago
> Where I went to school, becoming a student senator for a given club was a simple matter "Sure, I'll do it". It was fun. Same here but getting anything done is tremendously difficult. Even something simple like extended hours for the cafeteria (it was a tiny school) takes multiple semesters with being bounced back and forth between administration and Sodexo. My understand is that they'll gladly (one time) throw money at you if you say the right words but they are very cautious about anything that sounds like a long term commitment.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

lostlogin 10y ago

Far more selfishly - you often get a few subsidy too.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> This doesn't appear to include student offices Eligibility to run for student offices is generally not at all tied to where your ZIP code of legal residence, which is the only criteria it uses. So, without substantial redesign of its search model, I don't see how it could meaningfully handle them. Which isn't to say those offices aren't important at some schools, just doesn't seem like a good fit for the model of this tool.

curun1r 10y ago
The search already returns results for offices which you may be eligible for, not which you are eligible for. For example, my results include my state's Attorney General office, despite there being a requirement that candidates be admitted to the state's bar for 5 years prior to running for office. The vast majority of searchers will not be eligible for that office. It seems reasonable that anyone living in a zip code within a geofence around a university could have those student government positions returned, but with eligibility requirements clearly stated. In general, the eligibility requirements also need to be more clear. In my example, the bar requirement is real but wasn't listed on the site.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Yes, that's an issue that could some refinement, but it's different than the issue with student government where eligibility is tied to enrollment, not legal residency, which may be very remote from the institution. So, for most student government positions at universities, would have to show up as possible eligible positions for all searchers with a model which uses zip code of residence as the only criteria and prefers risking false positives to false negatives. That's pretty useless, which is why I say student government is a bad fit for the model.

djent 10y ago

I'm Speaker of my student parliament at my college. It is not as grand as you describe it. We only get about $250,000/semester from the college. We are actually incorporated as a non-profit through our state's general assembly, so our college has limited control over us. We have limited seats on our college's committees, and we have committees of our own which are majority-student. Committees like the Board of Education in our state have one student member from all the public higher education institutions, and they're appointed by the president of the college rather than by our student government. Our student government hasn't made huge progress on any major student issue.