3 ms·

Ask:HN a strong argument for privacy

3 points by fosco 10y ago

I often have conversations where I have to defend reasons why I find privacy important. Eventually many of those conversations got to a point where someone pointed out "I have nothing to hide" which has been frustrating. I have heard a lot of people point towards a quote by edward snowden [0] ""Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say,". I think a stronger argument is needed that also provides security... the inherent tradeoff. I am also concerned if the argument is not strong enough, privacy's and freedoms will continue to be infringed on. with that said, I am looking for others experiences in this realm and open debate on fine-tuning a strong argument. [0] https://mic.com/articles/119602/in-one-quote-edward-snowden-summed-up-why-our-privacy-is-worth-fighting-for [ads - sorry!]

Davidbrcz 10y ago
Give me your porn history and I'll post on your Facebook wall. What do you mean you don't want to because it's private ? See, you have something to hide !
gradschool 10y ago
In a nutshell, lack of privacy undermines the democratic process and the rule of law. Suppose someone wants to put a toxic waste dump in your neighborhood. You go around collecting signatures for a petition against it, but nobody will sign it. It seems they've all been informed that a friend or relative will lose his job if his prior drug conviction is disclosed, or will get sued into oblivion for having downloaded some copyright infringing material, unless of course the neighbor in question withdraws his opposition. You gather a few signatures nevertheless from people like you who have nothing to hide, but none of the politicians will touch it for similar reasons. In the end, policies get made for reasons unrelated to their legality or public interest at the behest of whoever controls the most personal information. Further examples are left as an exercise. Suppose the police want to conduct an investigation in a way that's technically illegal but they have an asset in the field who would be damaged by the disclosure of certain information. Suppose an ex-convict who has paid his debt to society according to the rule of law has his current whereabouts and the nature of his crime available as a matter of public record.
JakDrako 10y ago
Do they have drapes in their windows and doors on their bathrooms? Do they mind if you film them the next time they use the toilet or take a shower? How about the next time they make love to their partner? No? Why not? A lot of people seem to equate "privacy" with "hiding illegal/immoral stuff"... the biggest part of privacy is simply about decency and dignity and not having to share stuff you'd rather not. Personal hygiene and intimacy are two domains where even if "we have nothing to hide", we generally prefer not to share.

3 points by fosco 10y ago

Davidbrcz 10y ago

Give me your porn history and I'll post on your Facebook wall. What do you mean you don't want to because it's private ? See, you have something to hide !

gradschool 10y ago

In a nutshell, lack of privacy undermines the democratic process and the rule of law. Suppose someone wants to put a toxic waste dump in your neighborhood. You go around collecting signatures for a petition against it, but nobody will sign it. It seems they've all been informed that a friend or relative will lose his job if his prior drug conviction is disclosed, or will get sued into oblivion for having downloaded some copyright infringing material, unless of course the neighbor in question withdraws his opposition. You gather a few signatures nevertheless from people like you who have nothing to hide, but none of the politicians will touch it for similar reasons. In the end, policies get made for reasons unrelated to their legality or public interest at the behest of whoever controls the most personal information. Further examples are left as an exercise. Suppose the police want to conduct an investigation in a way that's technically illegal but they have an asset in the field who would be damaged by the disclosure of certain information. Suppose an ex-convict who has paid his debt to society according to the rule of law has his current whereabouts and the nature of his crime available as a matter of public record.

JakDrako 10y ago

Do they have drapes in their windows and doors on their bathrooms? Do they mind if you film them the next time they use the toilet or take a shower? How about the next time they make love to their partner? No? Why not? A lot of people seem to equate "privacy" with "hiding illegal/immoral stuff"... the biggest part of privacy is simply about decency and dignity and not having to share stuff you'd rather not. Personal hygiene and intimacy are two domains where even if "we have nothing to hide", we generally prefer not to share.