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Career Advice and Salary Negotiations: Move Early and Move Often

52 points by ProZsolt 10y ago

gnahckire 10y ago
Did this guy not spellcheck anything? The post is riddled with spelling errors.
pmiller2 10y ago
This seems really extreme. Talking to another company about interviewing on the first day of a new job? There's got to be some kind of limit past which that will catch up to you.
- user5994461 10y ago
  Not really. It's just business. You sell your services. You physically can only be at one place at once. When you get 2 offers, someone will not have you, it's that simple, no surprise.
jjirsa 10y ago
This is nonsense I was a manager. I cared a lot about keeping my people. I'd have fought for them if they told me they were leaving. I also wouldn't interview anyone who's average stay was around a year - that advice is awfully dangerous and can get you in a "don't bother screening" resume pile.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > I'd have fought for them if they told me they were leaving. Thus you are confirming that they have (to threaten) to leave to get anything. ;)
  - jjirsa 10y ago
    No, what they have to say is "I enjoy the job, but I feel that I can get paid more elsewhere; have you considered re-leveling my comp so it reflects the value I add to the company?" Don't need a competing offer. Don't need to threaten to leave. Just a "hey, re-level me please", and then a decent manager will either say "you're at the right level, if you can make more elsewhere go for it" or "you're right, you're under market comp, let's fix that."
mathgenius 10y ago
Awesome article. It helps if you imagine the voice of Ryan Gosling reading it.
i_feel_great 10y ago
I have watched incompetent pricks do a little bit of this and jump ahead of me everytime. Unfortunately, I am a pussy. Anyone got some advice on how to harden the fuck up? I am serious. Edit: Harden up without being a prick. I am not incompetent.
- mojoe 10y ago
  A lot of these types of articles are over-the-top in terms of "fuck you" sentiment. I have some experience moving around/negotiating higher salaries, and I think it's completely possible to do so without being an asshole. The key is to remember that it's just a business transaction -- you're providing a service, and the company is paying you for it. If you are polite and firm with your salary request, the company will take it if they think your service is worth it. If not, find another company that values your service more. Keep that in the back of your mind at all times, and don't let anyone obfuscate the situation, and you'll be fine.
- mattlevan 10y ago
  Light weights to build self esteem.
- ipince 10y ago
  Do it once. Only once, go through the exercise while reminding yourself that you're doing it just as an exercise. The second time (and beyond) will be orders of magnitude easier to do.
vostok 10y ago
I don't necessarily agree that you should move early and often, but you should absolutely be checking the market at least annually. If you care and you find that you're underpaid then you should find a new job immediately. It's astounding how many people believe silly things about market rate compensation.
- user5994461 10y ago
  Fairly sure that changing every year would be considered often.
kayman 10y ago
I find the tone of the article a bit confronting, but I agree with the points. Most of the time, raises in your company do not outpace the market pay. Also moving early and often keeps you sharp, learning new skills and focus on delivering value. The only thing I'd add is "don't be rude" and "don't be an ahole". Leave a company as if you're a senior member...with class, grace and minimal interruption to the team. Leave a trail of good will, not burned bridges.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
jnwatson 10y ago
I'm pretty sure a large portion of every tech company's intrinsic value is the amount they are paying their employees less than market rate. There's something about a lot of engineers' personalities that allow companies to run roughshod over them.
chrisbennet 10y ago
For whatever reason, it just was always just easier to go to new company that valued me more rather than try to negotiate a raise.

52 points by ProZsolt 10y ago

Did this guy not spellcheck anything? The post is riddled with spelling errors.

This seems really extreme. Talking to another company about interviewing on the first day of a new job? There's got to be some kind of limit past which that will catch up to you.

user5994461 10y ago
Not really. It's just business. You sell your services. You physically can only be at one place at once. When you get 2 offers, someone will not have you, it's that simple, no surprise.

jjirsa 10y ago

This is nonsense I was a manager. I cared a lot about keeping my people. I'd have fought for them if they told me they were leaving. I also wouldn't interview anyone who's average stay was around a year - that advice is awfully dangerous and can get you in a "don't bother screening" resume pile.

user5994461 10y ago
> I'd have fought for them if they told me they were leaving. Thus you are confirming that they have (to threaten) to leave to get anything. ;)
- jjirsa 10y ago
  No, what they have to say is "I enjoy the job, but I feel that I can get paid more elsewhere; have you considered re-leveling my comp so it reflects the value I add to the company?" Don't need a competing offer. Don't need to threaten to leave. Just a "hey, re-level me please", and then a decent manager will either say "you're at the right level, if you can make more elsewhere go for it" or "you're right, you're under market comp, let's fix that."

mathgenius 10y ago

Awesome article. It helps if you imagine the voice of Ryan Gosling reading it.

i_feel_great 10y ago

I have watched incompetent pricks do a little bit of this and jump ahead of me everytime. Unfortunately, I am a pussy. Anyone got some advice on how to harden the fuck up? I am serious. Edit: Harden up without being a prick. I am not incompetent.

mojoe 10y ago
A lot of these types of articles are over-the-top in terms of "fuck you" sentiment. I have some experience moving around/negotiating higher salaries, and I think it's completely possible to do so without being an asshole. The key is to remember that it's just a business transaction -- you're providing a service, and the company is paying you for it. If you are polite and firm with your salary request, the company will take it if they think your service is worth it. If not, find another company that values your service more. Keep that in the back of your mind at all times, and don't let anyone obfuscate the situation, and you'll be fine.
mattlevan 10y ago
Light weights to build self esteem.
ipince 10y ago
Do it once. Only once, go through the exercise while reminding yourself that you're doing it just as an exercise. The second time (and beyond) will be orders of magnitude easier to do.

vostok 10y ago

I don't necessarily agree that you should move early and often, but you should absolutely be checking the market at least annually. If you care and you find that you're underpaid then you should find a new job immediately. It's astounding how many people believe silly things about market rate compensation.

user5994461 10y ago
Fairly sure that changing every year would be considered often.

kayman 10y ago

I find the tone of the article a bit confronting, but I agree with the points. Most of the time, raises in your company do not outpace the market pay. Also moving early and often keeps you sharp, learning new skills and focus on delivering value. The only thing I'd add is "don't be rude" and "don't be an ahole". Leave a company as if you're a senior member...with class, grace and minimal interruption to the team. Leave a trail of good will, not burned bridges.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

jnwatson 10y ago

I'm pretty sure a large portion of every tech company's intrinsic value is the amount they are paying their employees less than market rate. There's something about a lot of engineers' personalities that allow companies to run roughshod over them.

chrisbennet 10y ago

For whatever reason, it just was always just easier to go to new company that valued me more rather than try to negotiate a raise.