4 ms·

>I think it's fair to argue that it's a tenant of faith for liberals that all conservatives hate gays, hate minorities, hate women, etc. Well, to paraphrase yo

>I think it's fair to argue that it's a tenant of faith for liberals that all conservatives hate gays, hate minorities, hate women, etc. Well, to paraphrase your next sentence: "that these people exist in the Democratic party is impossible to deny, to tar and feather the entire Democratic party as this way is how we get to the binary world view." In particular, I am a liberal in a rural Pennsylvania county that voted 75% for Trump, and I know that my conservative neighbors do not hate gays, minorities, and women. (Most people I've talked to were responsive to his position on coal mining; I'm not sure what will happen in four years if those jobs don't come back.) >This is why I say people are expressing a binary worldview. From what I can see, many are not expressing that there could be a third possibility. Or fourth. Or a myriad of options. You mentioned Twitter; if Trump being a Nazi is one bad option, and there are x-1 other good options, I think it's only natural that the kind of people who like to tweet are going to tweet about what they think is the most dangerous one.

noobermin 10y ago
I'm going to diverge from the topic, but do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas? The market without strings won't revive coal.
- edmccard 10y ago
  >do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas? In the county and state where I live (Somerset County, PA) the majority of coal production is metallurgical, so we are more sensitive to the demand for steel than to the price of natural gas. That demand is on an uptick, so there are 4 new mines planned for PA (2 in my county)[1]. But there was a similar spike in demand back in 2008, which didn't end up making much of an impact on employment. For example, PBS coals, whose headquarters I drive past every day, had ~600 employees in 2008 when they were bought by Severstal (a Russian steel company), who planned on adding ~150 more jobs.[2] In 2014 they were acquired by Corsa Coals (from Canada), who laid off about 130 miners in 2015.[3] TLDR: no I don't think those jobs will return. [1] http://www.coalage.com/news/latest/5510-4-new-met-mines-planned-for-pennsylvania.html http://www.coalage.com/news/latest/5510-4-new-met-mines-plan... [2] http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1531216/russian_steelmaker_to_buy_pbs_coals_in_somerset/ http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1531216/russian_steelm... [3] http://triblive.com/business/headlines/7530395-74/mines-coal-corsa http://triblive.com/business/headlines/7530395-74/mines-coal...
guildwriter 10y ago
>Well, to paraphrase your next sentence: "that these people exist in the Democratic party is impossible to deny, to tar and feather the entire Democratic party as this way is how we get to the binary world view." That's fair, I should have included that point as well. >You mentioned Twitter; if Trump being a Nazi is one bad option, and there are x-1 other good options, I think it's only natural that the kind of people who like to tweet are going to tweet about what they think is the most dangerous one. I mentioned twitter mainly because it's what comes to mind first. Here's a tumblr example: "I have seen a lot of people talking about the issues that were removed from the White House website. What I have seen little discussion of (or any, tbh) is what’s gone up in their place. There are exactly six issues now listed: America First Energy Plan America First Foreign Policy Bringing Back Jobs And Growth Making Our Military Strong Again Standing Up For Our Law Enforcement Community Trade Deals Working For All Americans Just those headings should be terrifying enough: between the focus on state violence and the coded “America First” white ultranationalism, this is an unabashedly, literally fascist platform." https://shotfromguns.tumblr.com/post/156267047201/i-have-seen-a-lot-of-people-talking-about-the https://shotfromguns.tumblr.com/post/156267047201/i-have-see...

noobermin 10y ago

I'm going to diverge from the topic, but do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas? The market without strings won't revive coal.

edmccard 10y ago
>do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas? In the county and state where I live (Somerset County, PA) the majority of coal production is metallurgical, so we are more sensitive to the demand for steel than to the price of natural gas. That demand is on an uptick, so there are 4 new mines planned for PA (2 in my county)[1]. But there was a similar spike in demand back in 2008, which didn't end up making much of an impact on employment. For example, PBS coals, whose headquarters I drive past every day, had ~600 employees in 2008 when they were bought by Severstal (a Russian steel company), who planned on adding ~150 more jobs.[2] In 2014 they were acquired by Corsa Coals (from Canada), who laid off about 130 miners in 2015.[3] TLDR: no I don't think those jobs will return. [1] http://www.coalage.com/news/latest/5510-4-new-met-mines-planned-for-pennsylvania.html http://www.coalage.com/news/latest/5510-4-new-met-mines-plan... [2] http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1531216/russian_steelmaker_to_buy_pbs_coals_in_somerset/ http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1531216/russian_steelm... [3] http://triblive.com/business/headlines/7530395-74/mines-coal-corsa http://triblive.com/business/headlines/7530395-74/mines-coal...

guildwriter 10y ago

>Well, to paraphrase your next sentence: "that these people exist in the Democratic party is impossible to deny, to tar and feather the entire Democratic party as this way is how we get to the binary world view." That's fair, I should have included that point as well. >You mentioned Twitter; if Trump being a Nazi is one bad option, and there are x-1 other good options, I think it's only natural that the kind of people who like to tweet are going to tweet about what they think is the most dangerous one. I mentioned twitter mainly because it's what comes to mind first. Here's a tumblr example: "I have seen a lot of people talking about the issues that were removed from the White House website. What I have seen little discussion of (or any, tbh) is what’s gone up in their place. There are exactly six issues now listed: America First Energy Plan America First Foreign Policy Bringing Back Jobs And Growth Making Our Military Strong Again Standing Up For Our Law Enforcement Community Trade Deals Working For All Americans Just those headings should be terrifying enough: between the focus on state violence and the coded “America First” white ultranationalism, this is an unabashedly, literally fascist platform." https://shotfromguns.tumblr.com/post/156267047201/i-have-seen-a-lot-of-people-talking-about-the https://shotfromguns.tumblr.com/post/156267047201/i-have-see...