6 ms·

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

by munin 10y ago

6stringmerc 10y ago
To get an education to facilitate a "good" job, pay my own bills, make my own decisions about free time, friendships and activities, and, most of all, not have to live with my parents. Granted, I'd had tastes of all of these growing up in a well rounded home life, but those were the values instilled in me. How I chose to get there was up to me.
EliRivers 10y ago
I had a real, authentic interest in my chosen degree subject. I really, genuinely wanted to know all about it. I didn't ever want a job (and I still don't want one). I really, authentically wanted to be good at it for no other purpose than the pleasure of being able to fluidly understand it and play with it.
- oblio 10y ago
  You must be either rich or have a very frugal, possibly isolated lifestyle. Most people don't fit either of those categories.
  - EliRivers 10y ago
    I didn't say I don't have a job. I said I don't want one. It turns out that I don't want to be living rough on the streets to a greater degree than I don't want a job.
    - oblio 10y ago
      Then in that case your comment doesn't add much to the conversation, to be blunt. Most people love to do something and don't like jobs (in general, or just their jobs).
      - EliRivers 10y ago
        Yet all I ever hear is how work is challenging and rewarding and people really look forwards to taking on new challenges and making a difference in the world of main street small hardware retail and how they find their job rewarding.
- Mieaou 10y ago
  You are so fake.
  - EliRivers 10y ago
    My chosen subject was physics. It's quite common to find that physics undergrads actually want to know physics; that it's not simply a planned stepping stone to some future job. I followed up with a masters in it, and several years later did another masters, in maths, at my own expense in evenings and weekends, with the same motivation; I had been doing some mathematics, and was annoyed at how bad I was at it, and decided a masters in maths would sharpen that right up. People like me exist. We are real. We exist in the blind spots of your world, taking genuine interest in things. Learning for no other reason than that we simply want to know more. To understand more. To have a fluidity with more knowledge, more understanding. You just haven't noticed. We don't have a manifesto or a webpage because we've got more interesting things to do.
wolfgke 10y ago
> They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18? When I was 18 I had an authentic motivation for studying math and computer science (which I did; German's admission procedures for courses of studies are different from how it works in the USA). What I did not have was something that made me look very social, outstanding, future leader etc. I was (and still am in many senses) the kind of rebellious, cynic, scientifically brillant (at that time without any opportunity to show) nerd who finds working in science much more exciting than about anything else. P.S.: I was never the kind of person who can serve as a role model, since the only advice I can give is the ones my father gave me (he, being a working-class child, worked his way up): "There is always someone who will be better than you, but not being the second-best is failure." and "If you don't work harder than everybody around you, it is no surprise if you fail.". This is not something that people want to hear from role models - they want to hear things that are more socially compatible.
jseliger 10y ago
They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18? Seriously. My thoughts exactly. There are obviously some 18-year-old college students who know exactly what they want (some of them are replying), but even many of those will change their minds. When I was 18 I had no idea what I wanted to do (except perhaps get laid), but it was clear that college was "the next step." On a tangential note, this thread reminds me of writing admissions essays. "Why do you want to come to this school / program?" You can never say the obvious: "Cause it's the most prestigious (or cost-effective) school I think I might get into."
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I still resent the colleges which used "Why do you want to come to Blah University in particular?" as an admissions prompt. For a graduate program, fine. For an undergraduate program? There are a handful of acceptable cases (Stanford makes you apply to a major), but mostly it's either "it's a good school that I hope I can get in to" or "it's a mediocre school and I need a safety for when Harvard shoots me down". These are places that let you spend 2-3 years 'undeclared', but they put on a song-and-dance about high school students having specific goals. I'm sure some of them want applicants who do have a specific reason to attend Blah, but even then there's no excuse for the usual system. You can't plan your life around Professor X at Blah, because Blah has a 15% acceptance rate and accepts among qualified students more or less at random. I remember that UPenn in particular had an essay prompt which was effectively "We're insecure, please praise us for 500 words."
  - Y201K 10y ago
    Essays for transfering are very similar: "Why do you want to come here / why did you leave your last situation?" Surely they'd like you to write about environment or purpose, but like with a first job as a kid, I think "the other place sucked / the classes weren't any good there" should suffice.
    - krackers 10y ago
      Actually I think for transferring the "why us" essay is fine, mainly because you're transferring for some specific reason and the "why us" essay just allows you to reflect on that reason and whether the new university will truly be any better than the one you're switching out of.

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

by munin 10y ago

> and no authentic detectable motivation They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18?

6stringmerc 10y ago

To get an education to facilitate a "good" job, pay my own bills, make my own decisions about free time, friendships and activities, and, most of all, not have to live with my parents. Granted, I'd had tastes of all of these growing up in a well rounded home life, but those were the values instilled in me. How I chose to get there was up to me.

EliRivers 10y ago

I had a real, authentic interest in my chosen degree subject. I really, genuinely wanted to know all about it. I didn't ever want a job (and I still don't want one). I really, authentically wanted to be good at it for no other purpose than the pleasure of being able to fluidly understand it and play with it.

oblio 10y ago
You must be either rich or have a very frugal, possibly isolated lifestyle. Most people don't fit either of those categories.
- EliRivers 10y ago
  I didn't say I don't have a job. I said I don't want one. It turns out that I don't want to be living rough on the streets to a greater degree than I don't want a job.
  - oblio 10y ago
    Then in that case your comment doesn't add much to the conversation, to be blunt. Most people love to do something and don't like jobs (in general, or just their jobs).
    - EliRivers 10y ago
      Yet all I ever hear is how work is challenging and rewarding and people really look forwards to taking on new challenges and making a difference in the world of main street small hardware retail and how they find their job rewarding.
Mieaou 10y ago
You are so fake.
- EliRivers 10y ago
  My chosen subject was physics. It's quite common to find that physics undergrads actually want to know physics; that it's not simply a planned stepping stone to some future job. I followed up with a masters in it, and several years later did another masters, in maths, at my own expense in evenings and weekends, with the same motivation; I had been doing some mathematics, and was annoyed at how bad I was at it, and decided a masters in maths would sharpen that right up. People like me exist. We are real. We exist in the blind spots of your world, taking genuine interest in things. Learning for no other reason than that we simply want to know more. To understand more. To have a fluidity with more knowledge, more understanding. You just haven't noticed. We don't have a manifesto or a webpage because we've got more interesting things to do.

wolfgke 10y ago

> They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18? When I was 18 I had an authentic motivation for studying math and computer science (which I did; German's admission procedures for courses of studies are different from how it works in the USA). What I did not have was something that made me look very social, outstanding, future leader etc. I was (and still am in many senses) the kind of rebellious, cynic, scientifically brillant (at that time without any opportunity to show) nerd who finds working in science much more exciting than about anything else. P.S.: I was never the kind of person who can serve as a role model, since the only advice I can give is the ones my father gave me (he, being a working-class child, worked his way up): "There is always someone who will be better than you, but not being the second-best is failure." and "If you don't work harder than everybody around you, it is no surprise if you fail.". This is not something that people want to hear from role models - they want to hear things that are more socially compatible.

jseliger 10y ago

They're 18. What do you want? What authentic motivation did you have when you were 18? Seriously. My thoughts exactly. There are obviously some 18-year-old college students who know exactly what they want (some of them are replying), but even many of those will change their minds. When I was 18 I had no idea what I wanted to do (except perhaps get laid), but it was clear that college was "the next step." On a tangential note, this thread reminds me of writing admissions essays. "Why do you want to come to this school / program?" You can never say the obvious: "Cause it's the most prestigious (or cost-effective) school I think I might get into."

Bartweiss 10y ago
I still resent the colleges which used "Why do you want to come to Blah University in particular?" as an admissions prompt. For a graduate program, fine. For an undergraduate program? There are a handful of acceptable cases (Stanford makes you apply to a major), but mostly it's either "it's a good school that I hope I can get in to" or "it's a mediocre school and I need a safety for when Harvard shoots me down". These are places that let you spend 2-3 years 'undeclared', but they put on a song-and-dance about high school students having specific goals. I'm sure some of them want applicants who do have a specific reason to attend Blah, but even then there's no excuse for the usual system. You can't plan your life around Professor X at Blah, because Blah has a 15% acceptance rate and accepts among qualified students more or less at random. I remember that UPenn in particular had an essay prompt which was effectively "We're insecure, please praise us for 500 words."
- Y201K 10y ago
  Essays for transfering are very similar: "Why do you want to come here / why did you leave your last situation?" Surely they'd like you to write about environment or purpose, but like with a first job as a kid, I think "the other place sucked / the classes weren't any good there" should suffice.
  - krackers 10y ago
    Actually I think for transferring the "why us" essay is fine, mainly because you're transferring for some specific reason and the "why us" essay just allows you to reflect on that reason and whether the new university will truly be any better than the one you're switching out of.