4 ms·

Your reasoning fails at (1). The money spent purchasing a home is sunk cost. It's gone. It's never coming back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_av

Your reasoning fails at (1). The money spent purchasing a home is sunk cost. It's gone. It's never coming back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_th... Furthermore, I claim it does not require us to be "moral superpeople" to get past this situation. There are many populations with vastly worse problems than (1) who don't turn to drugs, unplanned pregnancy, abandoning their wives and refusing to work. For example, the population of rural Mexico. In fact, it's this tendency for rural Mexicans to be "moral superpeople" that created one of Trump's key platforms. Mexicans are willing to move, abandon their societal networks, find a job and work it. Isn't this why Trump wants to build a wall?

guildwriter 10y ago
You realize that the sunk cost fallacy proves what I'm trying to say? Most people really struggle with that sort of thing. It's one of the reasons why behavioral economics has taken off in recent history. People are not perfect actors. Of course there are people with problems who don't turn to drugs that are also poor. The point I'm trying to make is that saying the best and only solution isn't necessarily to say that people are lazy and that they need to shape up. Or build a wall for that matter. It's also worth noting that the reasons why Mexicans can move and abandon their societal networks is because of the strength of the dollar versus the peso, the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do. Where is an American going to go that gets a similar instant upgrade in purchasing power? What about the societal reality that people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? And who says rural Mexicans have it any better? http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/03/mexico-lost-generation-drug-addicts-160302105406296.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/03/mexico-los...
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  ...the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do...people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes, while many Trump voters prefer to sit at home refusing to work and doing meth. I was making the following core points: 1) the Trump voters apatters was defending suffer mainly from self-inflicted problems and b) Trump is exploiting their desire to blame others for their own bad choices in order to take power. You haven't disagreed with me at all on this point. All you've said is that this behavior is somewhat predictable. I agree, it can be predicted. So what?
  - guildwriter 10y ago
    Some Mexicans are willing to do what it takes. Don't overgeneralize. It's not like the entire population of Mexico is in the US right now. Races and nationalities are not homogeneous. Is there a segment of the population blaming others for their problems? Yes. Are they totally wrong? No. They're not entirely right but they aren't entirely wrong. Is it all self inflicted problems? Hell no. There is no way I would argue that. It is simply factually incorrect. People working in the auto factories with a high school education aren't responsible when the price of steel craters. Assuming that everyone has to go college is a tenant of faith that needs to change. Characterizing a significant portion Trump voters as lazy meth heads is an incredible generalization. From a sheer numbers perspective I don't doubt it's sizable, but that would be in the sense that 100k is a large number. I think people want to work. I don't think people know where to look or what to do. Is Trump exploiting these people to gain power? As far as I can tell, in the usual way that politicians do things. Whether or not Trump can solve their problems is not something I feel I can predict. That's not to say I think Trump will be some kind of economic Jesus. I mainly feel that the future is incredibly difficult to predict and usually it's the result that no one expects that ends up being true.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      To answer the last question (can he solve) the answer is probably no. Simply because he has no skills in negotiating Washington whatsoever. Its only been a few days but so far its all "sign anything put in front of him". Having no plan except to win the Presidency, and that's been accomplished, I think he's running on fumes.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      If a former autoworker refuses to move to where the jobs are, and refuses to work in landscaping/elder care/other field that isn't dying, their plight is their fault.
      - apatters 10y ago
        It seems like the thrust of your comments in this thread is that some people are better than others. That is to say they are more moral, more intelligent, harder working, or whatever else. Fair enough. What conclusion -- be it a policy decision, social structure, general attitude toward the world or whatever else -- does this line of thinking lead you to?

guildwriter 10y ago

You realize that the sunk cost fallacy proves what I'm trying to say? Most people really struggle with that sort of thing. It's one of the reasons why behavioral economics has taken off in recent history. People are not perfect actors. Of course there are people with problems who don't turn to drugs that are also poor. The point I'm trying to make is that saying the best and only solution isn't necessarily to say that people are lazy and that they need to shape up. Or build a wall for that matter. It's also worth noting that the reasons why Mexicans can move and abandon their societal networks is because of the strength of the dollar versus the peso, the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do. Where is an American going to go that gets a similar instant upgrade in purchasing power? What about the societal reality that people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? And who says rural Mexicans have it any better? http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/03/mexico-lost-generation-drug-addicts-160302105406296.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/03/mexico-los...

yummyfajitas 10y ago
...the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do...people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes, while many Trump voters prefer to sit at home refusing to work and doing meth. I was making the following core points: 1) the Trump voters apatters was defending suffer mainly from self-inflicted problems and b) Trump is exploiting their desire to blame others for their own bad choices in order to take power. You haven't disagreed with me at all on this point. All you've said is that this behavior is somewhat predictable. I agree, it can be predicted. So what?
- guildwriter 10y ago
  Some Mexicans are willing to do what it takes. Don't overgeneralize. It's not like the entire population of Mexico is in the US right now. Races and nationalities are not homogeneous. Is there a segment of the population blaming others for their problems? Yes. Are they totally wrong? No. They're not entirely right but they aren't entirely wrong. Is it all self inflicted problems? Hell no. There is no way I would argue that. It is simply factually incorrect. People working in the auto factories with a high school education aren't responsible when the price of steel craters. Assuming that everyone has to go college is a tenant of faith that needs to change. Characterizing a significant portion Trump voters as lazy meth heads is an incredible generalization. From a sheer numbers perspective I don't doubt it's sizable, but that would be in the sense that 100k is a large number. I think people want to work. I don't think people know where to look or what to do. Is Trump exploiting these people to gain power? As far as I can tell, in the usual way that politicians do things. Whether or not Trump can solve their problems is not something I feel I can predict. That's not to say I think Trump will be some kind of economic Jesus. I mainly feel that the future is incredibly difficult to predict and usually it's the result that no one expects that ends up being true.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    To answer the last question (can he solve) the answer is probably no. Simply because he has no skills in negotiating Washington whatsoever. Its only been a few days but so far its all "sign anything put in front of him". Having no plan except to win the Presidency, and that's been accomplished, I think he's running on fumes.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    If a former autoworker refuses to move to where the jobs are, and refuses to work in landscaping/elder care/other field that isn't dying, their plight is their fault.
    - apatters 10y ago
      It seems like the thrust of your comments in this thread is that some people are better than others. That is to say they are more moral, more intelligent, harder working, or whatever else. Fair enough. What conclusion -- be it a policy decision, social structure, general attitude toward the world or whatever else -- does this line of thinking lead you to?