7 ms·

_Everyone_ is collecting our data nowadays. Who's left to sell it to?

by bjd2385 10y ago

provirus 10y ago
But not everyone has access to all of your browsing history; especially across browsers and devices. There's Microsoft, Google, and/or Apple have that. The profit models of these big companies create some disincentives on onselling this data. AV providers are often on much smaller margins and the return from selling this data or building their own products on it is much higher. I wouldn't be surprised if ISPs and VPNs also sold on data.
lottin 10y ago
Not everyone. FOSS doesn't.
- StreamBright 10y ago
  citation needed https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/Analytics.md https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/Analytics....
  - AsyncAwait 10y ago
    That link says nothing about selling your data. Also note that while Homebrew may be open-source, it is not "free software".
    - clarry 10y ago
      What makes it nonfree?
      - AsyncAwait 10y ago
        The fact that it uses GA contradicts Free Software's definition of free software, however it is open-source.
    - mcintyre1994 10y ago
      BSD-2 license isn't free?
    - StreamBright 10y ago
      >>>> _Everyone_ is collecting our data nowadays. Who's left to sell it to? I confirm that he is probably right about _____collecting____ data. Yes, this most definitely includes FOSS software. If your qualifier for FOSS is not using GA or anything like that than your are right, however, most of probably still count brew as FOSS. Hope that helps.
- provirus 10y ago
  It's less prevailent and severe, but FOSS sometimes does: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-health-report-understand-your-browser-perf https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-health-report-u... There are probably lots of smaller examples; especially in Android.
- edejong 10y ago
  Ubuntu unity sells your searches in the desktop environment by default
  - yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
    I thought they changed that?
  - ardaozkal 10y ago
    Not since 16
    - edejong 10y ago
      Oops, my bad. But at least they did, which was my point to begin with. I said goodbye to Ubuntu and their raking since the notorious community discussion, even before it was implemented. They lost my trust and goodwill with that move.
  - slgeorge 10y ago
    No Ubuntu doesn't, and nor has it every done. It connects on-line and off-line searches, so it shows you the result in on-line locations. The underlying assumption was that users increasingly see on-line and off-line content as all part of the same world ("their content"). The commercial aspect was that it connected to places like Amazon. It made money for Canonical by using affiliate links if the user chose to make a purchase. That is not the same as collecting all the history of the user and (anonymising) then selling that to a third-party or presenting adverts based on that data. The default is off as users felt searches by default connecting to external services was an invasion of privacy - that's different to "selling searches". Frankly, this closed-off the last viable manner for desktop Linux to secure a wider revenue stream of sufficient size to drive employing enough full time developers to keep up with the other platforms, in my personal opinion. FOSS doesn't change the dynamic that full-time developers cost real money. Source: I worked at Canonical from the early days of the desktop, for ~10 years.
    - edejong 10y ago
lm2s 10y ago
Marketing and ads companies?!
bad_user 10y ago
Not true. Google collects your searches. They don't sell your searches, they sell whatever they infer from your searches (your compiled and quite vague profile and I know, because I interacted with their AdSense platform), because they'd be stupid to sell your actual searches, since that's their most valuable property. Does anybody else know your search history? Besides the NSA, whom I assume have access to all US-hosted data, no. And not even Google knows my most sensitive searches, because my private mode is a Tor Browser connecting to DuckDuckGo, answering for my porn needs mostly. And I trust Google to keep my data safe more than I trust shady AV companies, because Google has hired a lot of security researchers, at their size all eyes are watching them and their behavior has been acceptable compared with that of others like Facebook. Information security is all about compartmentalization ;-)
- Inconel 10y ago
  >and their behavior has been acceptable compared with that of others like Facebook. If you have the time, would you mind expanding on why you consider Google's behavior better than Facebook's? I find myself very wary of FB but much less so of Google, but I can't really explain why.
  - illys 10y ago
    I have the same feeling but I cannot find arguments: they make money by selling very similar materials. I think Google only better markets its intrusions than Facebook... Something to do with the public sentence "don't be evil". Indeed "evil" is like "common sense": everybody has its own and understands what comforts him/herself. Seems like pure marketing. Maybe someone has any argument about the reality of this different Google/Facebook privacy intrusion/protection feeling?
  - bad_user 10y ago
    You're just biased, because Facebook has way more potential for doing you harm and has used your data against your interests already. Facebook manipulates the emotions of its users: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/#69ae7561704d http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-... MasterCard to access Facebook user data in order to make you spend more: http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/mastercard-to-access-facebook-user-data-20141006-10qrqy.html http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/mastercard-to-ac... Facebook ads use your face for free: http://www.itworld.com/article/2746556/networking-hardware/facebook-ads-use-your-face-for-free.html http://www.itworld.com/article/2746556/networking-hardware/f... Facebook is inventing phony likes to promote stories you've never seen to your friends: https://web.archive.org/web/20161215092610/http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2013/01/21/facebook-is-recycling-your-likes-to-promote-stories-youve-never-seen-to-all-your-friends/#c29cc58596bd https://web.archive.org/web/20161215092610/http://www.forbes... Facebook guesses your race and uses it for targeting: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/facebooks-ad-platform-now-guesses-at-your-race-based-on-your-behavior/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/faceb... Facebook has been the main promoter of bogus news and misinformation in 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/facebook-trending-false-news-stories https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/facebook-... Facebook has started to collect WhatsApp data, in spite of the app's original policy: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-backlash-facebook-data-privacy-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-... Facebook collects the texts that you don't send: https://arstechnica.com/business/2013/12/facebook-collects-conducts-research-on-status-updates-you-never-post/ https://arstechnica.com/business/2013/12/facebook-collects-c... Facebook tracks and builds user profiles for people without accounts: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-tracks-all-visitors-breaching-eu-law-report https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-... Facebook's privacy settings have been designed with black patterns, making it easy to publish by mistake: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/facebook-privacy-secret-profile-exposed https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/facebook-... Facebook makes it easy to tell when you're asleep: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/02/24/why-a-privacy-advocate-made-it-easy-to-track-when-your-facebook-friends-sleep/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/02/2...
annnnd 10y ago
Everyone is collecting as much data as possible, but few are in position to get all of the users' browsing data. Even fewer (if any?) make it available for sale. So there certainly IS interest in such data.
stephengillie 10y ago
_Everyone_ may be collecting data (I'm collecting steam player data, project pieces in alpha and beta stages), but not everyone has access to a lot of your data. I might be able to tie your player name to your identity, and know your work and sleep schedule, but this brings me no closer to your browser history.

_Everyone_ is collecting our data nowadays. Who's left to sell it to?

by bjd2385 10y ago

_Everyone_ is collecting our data nowadays. Who's left to sell it to?

But not everyone has access to all of your browsing history; especially across browsers and devices. There's Microsoft, Google, and/or Apple have that. The profit models of these big companies create some disincentives on onselling this data. AV providers are often on much smaller margins and the return from selling this data or building their own products on it is much higher. I wouldn't be surprised if ISPs and VPNs also sold on data.

lottin 10y ago

Not everyone. FOSS doesn't.

StreamBright 10y ago
citation needed https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/Analytics.md https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/blob/master/docs/Analytics....
- AsyncAwait 10y ago
  That link says nothing about selling your data. Also note that while Homebrew may be open-source, it is not "free software".
  - clarry 10y ago
    What makes it nonfree?
    - AsyncAwait 10y ago
      The fact that it uses GA contradicts Free Software's definition of free software, however it is open-source.
  - mcintyre1994 10y ago
    BSD-2 license isn't free?
  - StreamBright 10y ago
    >>>> _Everyone_ is collecting our data nowadays. Who's left to sell it to? I confirm that he is probably right about _____collecting____ data. Yes, this most definitely includes FOSS software. If your qualifier for FOSS is not using GA or anything like that than your are right, however, most of probably still count brew as FOSS. Hope that helps.
provirus 10y ago
It's less prevailent and severe, but FOSS sometimes does: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-health-report-understand-your-browser-perf https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-health-report-u... There are probably lots of smaller examples; especially in Android.
edejong 10y ago
Ubuntu unity sells your searches in the desktop environment by default
- yjftsjthsd-h 10y ago
  I thought they changed that?
- ardaozkal 10y ago
  Not since 16
  - edejong 10y ago
    Oops, my bad. But at least they did, which was my point to begin with. I said goodbye to Ubuntu and their raking since the notorious community discussion, even before it was implemented. They lost my trust and goodwill with that move.
- slgeorge 10y ago
  No Ubuntu doesn't, and nor has it every done. It connects on-line and off-line searches, so it shows you the result in on-line locations. The underlying assumption was that users increasingly see on-line and off-line content as all part of the same world ("their content"). The commercial aspect was that it connected to places like Amazon. It made money for Canonical by using affiliate links if the user chose to make a purchase. That is not the same as collecting all the history of the user and (anonymising) then selling that to a third-party or presenting adverts based on that data. The default is off as users felt searches by default connecting to external services was an invasion of privacy - that's different to "selling searches". Frankly, this closed-off the last viable manner for desktop Linux to secure a wider revenue stream of sufficient size to drive employing enough full time developers to keep up with the other platforms, in my personal opinion. FOSS doesn't change the dynamic that full-time developers cost real money. Source: I worked at Canonical from the early days of the desktop, for ~10 years.
  - edejong 10y ago

lm2s 10y ago

Marketing and ads companies?!

bad_user 10y ago

Not true. Google collects your searches. They don't sell your searches, they sell whatever they infer from your searches (your compiled and quite vague profile and I know, because I interacted with their AdSense platform), because they'd be stupid to sell your actual searches, since that's their most valuable property. Does anybody else know your search history? Besides the NSA, whom I assume have access to all US-hosted data, no. And not even Google knows my most sensitive searches, because my private mode is a Tor Browser connecting to DuckDuckGo, answering for my porn needs mostly. And I trust Google to keep my data safe more than I trust shady AV companies, because Google has hired a lot of security researchers, at their size all eyes are watching them and their behavior has been acceptable compared with that of others like Facebook. Information security is all about compartmentalization ;-)

Inconel 10y ago
>and their behavior has been acceptable compared with that of others like Facebook. If you have the time, would you mind expanding on why you consider Google's behavior better than Facebook's? I find myself very wary of FB but much less so of Google, but I can't really explain why.
- illys 10y ago
  I have the same feeling but I cannot find arguments: they make money by selling very similar materials. I think Google only better markets its intrusions than Facebook... Something to do with the public sentence "don't be evil". Indeed "evil" is like "common sense": everybody has its own and understands what comforts him/herself. Seems like pure marketing. Maybe someone has any argument about the reality of this different Google/Facebook privacy intrusion/protection feeling?
- bad_user 10y ago
  You're just biased, because Facebook has way more potential for doing you harm and has used your data against your interests already. Facebook manipulates the emotions of its users: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/#69ae7561704d http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-... MasterCard to access Facebook user data in order to make you spend more: http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/mastercard-to-access-facebook-user-data-20141006-10qrqy.html http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/business-it/mastercard-to-ac... Facebook ads use your face for free: http://www.itworld.com/article/2746556/networking-hardware/facebook-ads-use-your-face-for-free.html http://www.itworld.com/article/2746556/networking-hardware/f... Facebook is inventing phony likes to promote stories you've never seen to your friends: https://web.archive.org/web/20161215092610/http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2013/01/21/facebook-is-recycling-your-likes-to-promote-stories-youve-never-seen-to-all-your-friends/#c29cc58596bd https://web.archive.org/web/20161215092610/http://www.forbes... Facebook guesses your race and uses it for targeting: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/facebooks-ad-platform-now-guesses-at-your-race-based-on-your-behavior/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/faceb... Facebook has been the main promoter of bogus news and misinformation in 2016: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/facebook-trending-false-news-stories https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/09/facebook-... Facebook has started to collect WhatsApp data, in spite of the app's original policy: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-backlash-facebook-data-privacy-users https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/25/whatsapp-... Facebook collects the texts that you don't send: https://arstechnica.com/business/2013/12/facebook-collects-conducts-research-on-status-updates-you-never-post/ https://arstechnica.com/business/2013/12/facebook-collects-c... Facebook tracks and builds user profiles for people without accounts: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-tracks-all-visitors-breaching-eu-law-report https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/31/facebook-... Facebook's privacy settings have been designed with black patterns, making it easy to publish by mistake: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/facebook-privacy-secret-profile-exposed https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/29/facebook-... Facebook makes it easy to tell when you're asleep: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/02/24/why-a-privacy-advocate-made-it-easy-to-track-when-your-facebook-friends-sleep/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2016/02/2...

annnnd 10y ago

Everyone is collecting as much data as possible, but few are in position to get all of the users' browsing data. Even fewer (if any?) make it available for sale. So there certainly IS interest in such data.

stephengillie 10y ago

_Everyone_ may be collecting data (I'm collecting steam player data, project pieces in alpha and beta stages), but not everyone has access to a lot of your data. I might be able to tie your player name to your identity, and know your work and sleep schedule, but this brings me no closer to your browser history.