5 ms·

It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida,

It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. But as long as Saudis are omitted from this regulation, it's pretty ineffective. Then again, how much of "terrorism legislation" is actually preventing terrorism, as opposed to extending the powers of police and prosecution, or just being populist "I'm doing something"?

coldtea 10y ago
>It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. Saudis have a looooong history of funding all kinds of terrorist groups across the whole muslim world.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  Sure. They basically created and funded al Qaida in the 1980s to counter the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Then bin Laden came back to Saudi Arabia and offered to help against Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, and the Saudis told him to go away. After that they became more enemies than friends, but with the weird twist that the Saudi government wants to appear ideologically relatively aligned with al Qaida, such that al Qaida has little support for overthrowing the house of Saud.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    It's not just Qaida though, they sponsor all kinds of Sunni extremists all over the globe.
tiatia 10y ago
"It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations." I think that Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest problem in the world. In fact, I wish Trump would have banned them too or even suggested a regime change: 1. http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02/isis-isnt-the-problem-saudi-arabia-is.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02... 2. http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01/the-wahhabi-wet-dream.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01... For Iran I have high hopes. They started the fundamentalist bullshit and I have the impression they may be the first to get rid of it. In fact, there are first signs (German link, try google translate): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Firanjournal.org%2Fgesellschaft%2Firan-islam-schiitentum&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  > For Iran I have high hopes. They started the fundamentalist bullshit Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently. Wahhabism started in Saudi Arabia in the early 20th century and spread due to Saudi oil money in the 30's and 40's. Meanwhile Iran was a pluralistic society right up until 1979.
  - tiatia 10y ago
    Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently. While there is a tiny bit of truth in your statement, Saudi Arabia changed a lot in 1979 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure Saudi King Khaled however, did not react to the upheaval by cracking down on religious puritans in general, but by giving the ulama and religious conservatives more power over the next decade. He is thought to have believed that "the solution to the religious upheaval was simple -- more religion." First, photographs of women in newspapers were banned, then women on television. Cinemas and music shops were shut down. School curriculum was changed to provide many more hours of religious studies, eliminating classes on subjects like non-Islamic history. Gender segregation was extended "to the humblest coffee shop". The religious police became more assertive.[ So it is up to debate, if Wahhabism really predates Islam extremism so far or at all. But regarding for Saudi Arabia I have little to no hope at all. Again, to use your wording, Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently.
    - travmatt 10y ago
      So America shouldn't support a progressive Saudi monarchy attempting to break the control of their religious bloc, but instead support an Iranian regime dedicated to export their religious revolution. Makes sense.
Melchizedek 10y ago
Regardless of the hijackers motives, Saudi Arabia is by far the worst country when it comes to exporting and supporting terror. Iran is an island of sanity by comparison, and there are no Shia terrorist organizations nowadays (Hezbollah are not terrorists - they don't blow up random civilians).
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  this is so true. simple fact in face of all those years of propaganda against iran. by no means are they some altruistic peace lovers, but considering other countries in the region, US could get much more if they would be allies since technically there are no obstacles (apart from 1979 US embassy issue, but nobody got killed, all released eventually... worse things happen, ie Behgazi and nobody cares if it serves some agenda). If you go there nowadays, all the signs are in 2 languages - Farsi and English. Everybody speaks at least a bit English. Compared to say France :)
  - travmatt 10y ago
    >US could get much more if they would be allies since technically there are no obstacles It's weird, it's almost like pioneering and supplying technology (VBIED's) to kill American troops, and founding terrorist organizations to kill American allies somehow sours the relationships between the two countries.
- berntb 10y ago
  Hezbollah and Iran have a history of targeting Jewish civilians, not only in Israel. Which I do think you know.
- thret 10y ago
  Saeed Malekpour is still in prison, that alone for me makes Iran a no-go country. http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/01/19/death-sentence-for-iranian-programmer-accused-of-developing-software-used-by-porn-sites/ http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/01/19/death-sentence-for-irani...
  - 10y ago

coldtea 10y ago

>It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations. Saudis have a looooong history of funding all kinds of terrorist groups across the whole muslim world.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
Sure. They basically created and funded al Qaida in the 1980s to counter the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Then bin Laden came back to Saudi Arabia and offered to help against Saddam when he invaded Kuwait, and the Saudis told him to go away. After that they became more enemies than friends, but with the weird twist that the Saudi government wants to appear ideologically relatively aligned with al Qaida, such that al Qaida has little support for overthrowing the house of Saud.
- coldtea 10y ago
  It's not just Qaida though, they sponsor all kinds of Sunni extremists all over the globe.

tiatia 10y ago

"It's a bit more interesting wrt. most 9/11 hijackers being Saudis: I think it's pretty much confirmed at this point that it was a deliberate choice by al Qaida, attempting to deteriorate US-Saudi relations." I think that Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest problem in the world. In fact, I wish Trump would have banned them too or even suggested a regime change: 1. http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02/isis-isnt-the-problem-saudi-arabia-is.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/02... 2. http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01/the-wahhabi-wet-dream.html http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2015/01... For Iran I have high hopes. They started the fundamentalist bullshit and I have the impression they may be the first to get rid of it. In fact, there are first signs (German link, try google translate): https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Firanjournal.org%2Fgesellschaft%2Firan-islam-schiitentum&edit-text= https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

Analemma_ 10y ago
> For Iran I have high hopes. They started the fundamentalist bullshit Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently. Wahhabism started in Saudi Arabia in the early 20th century and spread due to Saudi oil money in the 30's and 40's. Meanwhile Iran was a pluralistic society right up until 1979.
- tiatia 10y ago
  Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently. While there is a tiny bit of truth in your statement, Saudi Arabia changed a lot in 1979 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mosque_seizure Saudi King Khaled however, did not react to the upheaval by cracking down on religious puritans in general, but by giving the ulama and religious conservatives more power over the next decade. He is thought to have believed that "the solution to the religious upheaval was simple -- more religion." First, photographs of women in newspapers were banned, then women on television. Cinemas and music shops were shut down. School curriculum was changed to provide many more hours of religious studies, eliminating classes on subjects like non-Islamic history. Gender segregation was extended "to the humblest coffee shop". The religious police became more assertive.[ So it is up to debate, if Wahhabism really predates Islam extremism so far or at all. But regarding for Saudi Arabia I have little to no hope at all. Again, to use your wording, Please try to learn even the slightest thing about this subject before you make statements so confidently.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    So America shouldn't support a progressive Saudi monarchy attempting to break the control of their religious bloc, but instead support an Iranian regime dedicated to export their religious revolution. Makes sense.

Melchizedek 10y ago

Regardless of the hijackers motives, Saudi Arabia is by far the worst country when it comes to exporting and supporting terror. Iran is an island of sanity by comparison, and there are no Shia terrorist organizations nowadays (Hezbollah are not terrorists - they don't blow up random civilians).

saiya-jin 10y ago
this is so true. simple fact in face of all those years of propaganda against iran. by no means are they some altruistic peace lovers, but considering other countries in the region, US could get much more if they would be allies since technically there are no obstacles (apart from 1979 US embassy issue, but nobody got killed, all released eventually... worse things happen, ie Behgazi and nobody cares if it serves some agenda). If you go there nowadays, all the signs are in 2 languages - Farsi and English. Everybody speaks at least a bit English. Compared to say France :)
- travmatt 10y ago
  >US could get much more if they would be allies since technically there are no obstacles It's weird, it's almost like pioneering and supplying technology (VBIED's) to kill American troops, and founding terrorist organizations to kill American allies somehow sours the relationships between the two countries.
berntb 10y ago
Hezbollah and Iran have a history of targeting Jewish civilians, not only in Israel. Which I do think you know.
thret 10y ago
Saeed Malekpour is still in prison, that alone for me makes Iran a no-go country. http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/01/19/death-sentence-for-iranian-programmer-accused-of-developing-software-used-by-porn-sites/ http://thenextweb.com/me/2012/01/19/death-sentence-for-irani...
- 10y ago