9 ms·

On behalf of my fellow Americans, please allow me to offer you our deepest apology. Please know that most of our country doesn't hate or fear you. We will conti

On behalf of my fellow Americans, please allow me to offer you our deepest apology. Please know that most of our country doesn't hate or fear you. We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it.

saiya-jin 10y ago
of course you don't, political elite never represents common folks out there (that includes supposedly evil places like North Korea, Iran, Iraq etc.). americans are, by my personal experience great people. america's loss, some other place gain (judging from OP description, he won't have big troubles getting someplace else). to OP - don't worry, seeing where US us steadily going after 9/11, without any attempt to even slow down, there are much better places to live, if you value things like true freedom. as somebody coming from Iran, I would presume so...
StavrosK 10y ago
> We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it. You say that, but I'm afraid the implication might be "short of doing anything that matters". Where are the protests? Why aren't people in the streets? Don't make the same mistake Germans did under Hitler. The government relies on each step affecting few enough people that nobody will be bothered enough to march, and after a thousand little steps, you have a totalitarian government.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  There are fairly large and violent protests against Trump. His supporters are regularly attacked. This has been true ever since he was a serious candidate. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/riots-break-out-washington-over-9660568 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/riots-break-out-wash... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/anti-trump-protesters-pepper-sprayed-eve-inauguration-outside-deploraball-d-n709321 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/anti-trum... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillary-supporters-crash-trump-fundraiser-beat-rob-supporters-entering-mn-convention-center/ http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillary-supporters-c... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/0... In addition to violent (and some non-violent) protests, you also have direct action targeting his supporters. People who support Trump, or are mistakenly believed to support him, or just random passerby, are being assaulted (and in some cases, kidnapped or shot). https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spencer-punched-attack.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spenc... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/04/facebook-live-stream-video-man-attacked-chicago-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/04/facebook-liv... http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-release-man-arrested-in-uw-shooting/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-releas... Do these things count as "anything that matters"?
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    I might suggest clarifying where you stand on this, as right now it's ambiguous as to whether you are for or against these actions.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    > Do these things count as "anything that matters"? No. Those aren't protests, they're vigilantism.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure Spencer got punched in the face because he's a Nazi. As for the rest of it, it's a little hilarious to act like the non violent protests aren't the majority of activity. Just the Women's marches (which aren't just about Trump but are obviously responsive to his presidency) were more in number, both location wise and participation wise, than any violent actions that have happened. If you want to limit it to immigration protests, the non violent protests yesterday had higher participation than the totality of anti-Trump violence (http://dcist.com/2017/01/theres_a_rally_planned_at_white_hou.php http://dcist.com/2017/01/theres_a_rally_planned_at_white_hou... ).
    - AlgorithmicTime 10y ago
      You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis. There's no way to do that that doesn't lead to an escalating violence cycle.
      - maxerickson 10y ago
        My comment is an analysis of the motivation for the punch not an analysis of punching as a tactic.
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
        > You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis Sure you can.
    - 10y ago
- guildwriter 10y ago
  There were already many different large scale protests across the nation several days ago. Those took months to organize and set up. Logistics alone makes another immediate large scale protest unlikely. The exception is unless there is clear and demonstrable malfeasance like in the case of S. Korea's president. If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doubts people would start protesting immediately. Careful reading of the draft though shows the following: 1) It's limited to seven countries. Notably missing Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan. 2) The ban on entry from these countries is 30 days to "reduce investigative burdens". 3) After that point all countries on that list need to provide additional screening info in order for visas to be accepted. 4) If the countries do not agree to provide said info after 60 days from notification, all nationals from that country will not be allowed entry unless under certain circumstances. Compliance will reverse this. 5) More countries may be added to this list based on recommendation by SecState (Tillerson) and SecDef (Mattis). 6) On a case by case basis, visas may be granted to nationals from banned countries. I wouldn't call any of the above great, but calling this the precursor to Kristallnacht is a reach. Instead of losing your mind over everything objectionable that Trump does, it might be best to conserve your strength. Remember that fatiguing the people you want to support you with a constant state of emergency is a real thing. Proportional responses are best.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doubts people would start protesting immediately. It's useful to look at what Hannah Arendt said about the Nazis. https://twitter.com/charlesarthur/status/824551572520796161 https://twitter.com/charlesarthur/status/824551572520796161 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CykynrCXEAAJOSE.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CykynrCXEAAJOSE.jpg:large Trump is saying what he needs to be true for him to start building his walls; deporting people; etc.
    - guildwriter 10y ago
      People have been screaming that the Republican party is the Nazi party since the days of Reagan. So far history has held this up to be absolutely not true. Forgive me if I'm a bit incredulous and give Trump the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise. Here's another way to look at it: "I know you've taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall. It always gets bloody, always. It's the threat of not just the way of doing business, but in their minds it's threatening the game. But really what it's threatening is their livelihoods, it's threatening their jobs, it's threatening the way that they do things. And every time that happens, whether it's the government or a way of doing business or whatever it is, the people are holding the reins, have their hands on the switch. They go bat shit crazy." -Moneyball I don't understand how people who can understand and believe in things like quantum and multiple realities think that the only outcomes our world are strictly binary: Nazism or Progressive Liberalism.
- andrewblossom 10y ago
  There were protests last night in New York City: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/new-york-trump-immigration-executive-order-muslim-protests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/new-york-tru...
- qubex 10y ago
  I'm afraid that even protests won't carry much weight against the tone-deaf bunch of corporate-funded cadre of bigoted politicians this electoral cycle has ushered into power on a narrow but fanatic power base. The first occasion for actually affecting matters will not arise before the next Congressional electoral cycle. The whole world is stuck with these people doing whatever meets their fancy for the next two years at least... and even then changing course will depend on the dejected silent majority somehow snapping out of their apathy and voting to say that enough is enough — that same silent majority whose apathy led to the fanatics getting their way a few months ago. Needless to say, I'm not optimistic.
- alchemism 10y ago
  There are massive protests going on in Philadelphia right now, where President Trump and the entire Congress of Republicans are meeting to plan their strategy for the year. It might be the largest street protest in Philadelphia's history. https://twitter.com/hashtag/TrumpinPhilly?src=tren https://twitter.com/hashtag/TrumpinPhilly?src=tren [edit:grammar]
eternalban 10y ago
I am a naturalized American citizen, born in Iran. Up to yesterday I was giving this administration the benefit of the doubt. But an administration that demands political vetting of scientific results tripped my wire. Now I am not sure what to make of our President mentioning "citizen, good citizens" in his remarks to DHS. After all, "no one expects the spanish inquisition".
artmageddon 10y ago
I completely agree with you and expressed my best wishes and sympathy to OP - but I'd also like to take a moment to appreciate the irony of your username in this thread! :)

saiya-jin 10y ago

of course you don't, political elite never represents common folks out there (that includes supposedly evil places like North Korea, Iran, Iraq etc.). americans are, by my personal experience great people. america's loss, some other place gain (judging from OP description, he won't have big troubles getting someplace else). to OP - don't worry, seeing where US us steadily going after 9/11, without any attempt to even slow down, there are much better places to live, if you value things like true freedom. as somebody coming from Iran, I would presume so...

StavrosK 10y ago

> We will continue to do everything we can to fight this policy and others like it. You say that, but I'm afraid the implication might be "short of doing anything that matters". Where are the protests? Why aren't people in the streets? Don't make the same mistake Germans did under Hitler. The government relies on each step affecting few enough people that nobody will be bothered enough to march, and after a thousand little steps, you have a totalitarian government.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
There are fairly large and violent protests against Trump. His supporters are regularly attacked. This has been true ever since he was a serious candidate. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/riots-break-out-washington-over-9660568 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/riots-break-out-wash... http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/anti-trump-protesters-pepper-sprayed-eve-inauguration-outside-deploraball-d-n709321 http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/inauguration-2017/anti-trum... http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillary-supporters-crash-trump-fundraiser-beat-rob-supporters-entering-mn-convention-center/ http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/hillary-supporters-c... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/03/ugly-bloody-scenes-in-san-jose-as-protesters-attack-trump-supporters-outside-rally/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/0... In addition to violent (and some non-violent) protests, you also have direct action targeting his supporters. People who support Trump, or are mistakenly believed to support him, or just random passerby, are being assaulted (and in some cases, kidnapped or shot). https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spencer-punched-attack.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/politics/richard-spenc... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/04/facebook-live-stream-video-man-attacked-chicago-trump https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/04/facebook-liv... http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-release-man-arrested-in-uw-shooting/ http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/police-releas... Do these things count as "anything that matters"?
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  I might suggest clarifying where you stand on this, as right now it's ambiguous as to whether you are for or against these actions.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  > Do these things count as "anything that matters"? No. Those aren't protests, they're vigilantism.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure Spencer got punched in the face because he's a Nazi. As for the rest of it, it's a little hilarious to act like the non violent protests aren't the majority of activity. Just the Women's marches (which aren't just about Trump but are obviously responsive to his presidency) were more in number, both location wise and participation wise, than any violent actions that have happened. If you want to limit it to immigration protests, the non violent protests yesterday had higher participation than the totality of anti-Trump violence (http://dcist.com/2017/01/theres_a_rally_planned_at_white_hou.php http://dcist.com/2017/01/theres_a_rally_planned_at_white_hou... ).
  - AlgorithmicTime 10y ago
    You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis. There's no way to do that that doesn't lead to an escalating violence cycle.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      My comment is an analysis of the motivation for the punch not an analysis of punching as a tactic.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
      > You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis Sure you can.
  - 10y ago
guildwriter 10y ago
There were already many different large scale protests across the nation several days ago. Those took months to organize and set up. Logistics alone makes another immediate large scale protest unlikely. The exception is unless there is clear and demonstrable malfeasance like in the case of S. Korea's president. If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doubts people would start protesting immediately. Careful reading of the draft though shows the following: 1) It's limited to seven countries. Notably missing Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan. 2) The ban on entry from these countries is 30 days to "reduce investigative burdens". 3) After that point all countries on that list need to provide additional screening info in order for visas to be accepted. 4) If the countries do not agree to provide said info after 60 days from notification, all nationals from that country will not be allowed entry unless under certain circumstances. Compliance will reverse this. 5) More countries may be added to this list based on recommendation by SecState (Tillerson) and SecDef (Mattis). 6) On a case by case basis, visas may be granted to nationals from banned countries. I wouldn't call any of the above great, but calling this the precursor to Kristallnacht is a reach. Instead of losing your mind over everything objectionable that Trump does, it might be best to conserve your strength. Remember that fatiguing the people you want to support you with a constant state of emergency is a real thing. Proportional responses are best.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doubts people would start protesting immediately. It's useful to look at what Hannah Arendt said about the Nazis. https://twitter.com/charlesarthur/status/824551572520796161 https://twitter.com/charlesarthur/status/824551572520796161 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CykynrCXEAAJOSE.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CykynrCXEAAJOSE.jpg:large Trump is saying what he needs to be true for him to start building his walls; deporting people; etc.
  - guildwriter 10y ago
    People have been screaming that the Republican party is the Nazi party since the days of Reagan. So far history has held this up to be absolutely not true. Forgive me if I'm a bit incredulous and give Trump the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise. Here's another way to look at it: "I know you've taken it in the teeth out there, but the first guy through the wall. It always gets bloody, always. It's the threat of not just the way of doing business, but in their minds it's threatening the game. But really what it's threatening is their livelihoods, it's threatening their jobs, it's threatening the way that they do things. And every time that happens, whether it's the government or a way of doing business or whatever it is, the people are holding the reins, have their hands on the switch. They go bat shit crazy." -Moneyball I don't understand how people who can understand and believe in things like quantum and multiple realities think that the only outcomes our world are strictly binary: Nazism or Progressive Liberalism.
andrewblossom 10y ago
There were protests last night in New York City: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/new-york-trump-immigration-executive-order-muslim-protests https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/new-york-tru...
qubex 10y ago
I'm afraid that even protests won't carry much weight against the tone-deaf bunch of corporate-funded cadre of bigoted politicians this electoral cycle has ushered into power on a narrow but fanatic power base. The first occasion for actually affecting matters will not arise before the next Congressional electoral cycle. The whole world is stuck with these people doing whatever meets their fancy for the next two years at least... and even then changing course will depend on the dejected silent majority somehow snapping out of their apathy and voting to say that enough is enough — that same silent majority whose apathy led to the fanatics getting their way a few months ago. Needless to say, I'm not optimistic.
alchemism 10y ago
There are massive protests going on in Philadelphia right now, where President Trump and the entire Congress of Republicans are meeting to plan their strategy for the year. It might be the largest street protest in Philadelphia's history. https://twitter.com/hashtag/TrumpinPhilly?src=tren https://twitter.com/hashtag/TrumpinPhilly?src=tren [edit:grammar]

eternalban 10y ago

I am a naturalized American citizen, born in Iran. Up to yesterday I was giving this administration the benefit of the doubt. But an administration that demands political vetting of scientific results tripped my wire. Now I am not sure what to make of our President mentioning "citizen, good citizens" in his remarks to DHS. After all, "no one expects the spanish inquisition".

artmageddon 10y ago

I completely agree with you and expressed my best wishes and sympathy to OP - but I'd also like to take a moment to appreciate the irony of your username in this thread! :)