7 ms·

Testing Ads in Facebook Messenger

45 points by Inconel 10y ago

ericdykstra 10y ago
Time to start using other apps more. I already have other chat app contacts for most everyone I use Facebook Messenger with, and there is no friction to switch.
eva1984 10y ago
Eww. Any replacement suggestion? Paid/subscription app is welcome, too.
- hendzen 10y ago
  signal
  - mzzter 10y ago
    I second this.
- joelrunyon 10y ago
  Texting. Using your phone.
- daveFNbuck 10y ago
  There are so many apps available for messaging right now. I use SMS, Hangouts, Twitter. Many people like Snapchat and Allo. You can try asking your friends which ones they use.
  - eva1984 10y ago
    Thx. But many of those are counting on ads too, like Twitter/Snapchat/Allo(maybe). I figure SMS might be my the only choice out there though.
    - gst 10y ago
      Every free centralized messaging service at some point needs to find a business model that finances the platform. Right now the (IMO) best choice are decentralized messaging protocols such as XMPP (https://xmpp.org/ https://xmpp.org/) or Matrix (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/). Similar to email you can (i) run your own server or decide which server to use (ii) communicate with people on other servers, and (iii) choose from multiple independent client and server implementations. For XMPP I recommend Conversations (https://conversations.im/ https://conversations.im/) as client on Android and ChatSecure as iOS client (https://chatsecure.org/ https://chatsecure.org/). An simple easy to use server implementation is Prosody (https://prosody.im/ https://prosody.im/), but ejabberd (https://www.ejabberd.im/ https://www.ejabberd.im/) is a good choice too. There are also multiple public servers if you don't want to run your own server instance, for example the XMPP server run by DuckDuckGo (https://duck.co/help/community-platform/xmpp https://duck.co/help/community-platform/xmpp). For Matrix Riot is the best client implementation which runs on multiple platforms (https://riot.im/ https://riot.im/). The (afaik) only usable server implementation is the reference implementation (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/), but at some future point the currently pre-alpha Rust-based Ruma implementation (https://www.ruma.io/ https://www.ruma.io/) could be a good choice too. A nice thing about XMPP is that server-based transports can provide gateway-functionality to other networks. For example with Spectrum (http://spectrum.im/ http://spectrum.im/) it's possible to use your XMPP client of choice to chat with your friends that use Facebook Messenger.
      - voltagex_ 10y ago
        The problem is that many of my friends aren't going to switch. Using a gateway/proxy is good until the banhammer comes down. It's looking like my best option is to buy an iPhone for an iMessage/Signal one-two punch.
    - daveFNbuck 10y ago
      Twitter doesn't put ads in direct messages. I haven't used Snapchat or Allo myself, but the other ones I said I use don't have ads in messages.
- beefield 10y ago
  What's wrong with email? (Honest question. Based on this discussion it is not considered an option worth mentioning.)
  - aylmao 10y ago
    At least in my case: - I get too much spam, so I tend to check email less. - It's not as "real time" as I sometimes need it to be. Sill feels more like mail than like conversation. - I like to know when people read my messages (I know there's apps that allow this, but it's not ubiquitous) - I like to know when people are typing (aka, are currently in the conversation) - Different email programs send/format emails differently. Some seem to keep all the replies attached to the bottom of the latest message in a way my email program can't figure out and collapse. I'm a fan of email tbh, and I wish more resources were invested in making it better, but I just don't think it lies in the same "space" as instant messaging.
  - corobo 10y ago
    Email is not an instant messenger. Probably not as frequent anymore but it can take days for you to receive an email in some cases
- wodenokoto 10y ago
  Line and WeChat rely mostly and purchases.
executesorder66 10y ago
I don't understand why this is getting so many upvotes. Do people enjoy being flooded with ads wherever they go?
- Inconel 10y ago
  I submitted the post precisely because I dislike being flooded with ads wherever I go. I imagine most are upvoting it for similar reasons?
- lucasmullens 10y ago
  You only upvote good news?
- CaveTech 10y ago
  It's being upvoted for visibility. That said are people really complaining about ads on an otherwise totally free platform?
- ajkjk 10y ago
  Because it's something that HN users want to see on the site. Upvoting has nothing to do with endorsing what it says.
joelrunyon 10y ago
This is why it's annoying to me that so many people use Messenger. You know what I can use text anyone, anytime without having to worry about ads? My phone. I feel like there's a downward trend of companies using free stuff to "hook" people and then just feed them an inferior product over and over and over again (more ads, etc). It's not just creating worse products, but it's creating worse customers (who don't understand actual costs when they see other products that are "free"). What happened to just "paying for x, get x." As a customer, I miss those business models and as a business, I miss those customers.
- ajkjk 10y ago
  Maybe I'm just using the wrong app, but as far as I know texting on Android is garbage. Plus having to get phone numbers is annoying when we're already connected on FB. And phone numbers are randomly loseable when getting new phones, and I can't access my texts from my computer, and I lose texts if I get a new phone, and attaching media barely works, and messages get broken apart at a character limit, etc etc. I'd rather use Messenger any day. Of course I don't like that it's controlled by FB, because I hate FB, but I'm probably going to keep using it until it's replaced by another free social media platform that 'everyone' is on by default.
  - dajohnson89 10y ago
    I use hangouts (project fi) for texts. It's great! But yeah, the default messenger app for Android isn't good IMO.
    - ajkjk 10y ago
      Hm. I really dislike Google's ecosystem, so I don't think I'm interested in switching to it. And my initial experiences with hangouts were super negative. I'm using an app (messenger?) that just puts a slightly better UI on Android texting, but it's still pretty bad. I should look into using Telegram, though. By far the biggest gripe with texting is that it's not persistent across devices. That's a core requirement that seems like it should have been solved a decade ago.
Smaug123 10y ago
If anyone's ever clicked on an ad on Facebook not-by-accident, I would love to know. Invariably Facebook's ads are either a) highly non-relevant [the vast majority of ads], or b) I already know about what they're advertising. I even try to help, to make the ads relevant: every so often, I go through Facebook's list of my interests to weed out the many ridiculous inferences Facebook has made about me. I bet that's more than 99% of the Facebook population does!
- Kiro 10y ago
  I find interesting stuff through Facebook ads all the time. It's on a level that I often miss that it's actually sponsored content and not from a page I like.
jasonlfunk 10y ago
I understand the complaint, but what is the alternative? As a social network - you cannot charge to be on the site; otherwise you will never be more than just a niche. Yes, people hate ads. But, if you were Facebook, what would you do differently?
chambo622 10y ago
Maybe this will be the tipping point that gets everyone to switch to Allo
- Kiro 10y ago
  Right.
- corobo 10y ago
  Allo needs to do more marketing first. What is an Allo?
  - ahalam 10y ago
    Last week, someone on a Android podcast referred to it as "Alto"! No one remembers / knows what it is.
quaz3l 10y ago
I really don't like ads just like most everyone else, but I can't help but feel there is a missed opportunity here. Facebook just put classic mobile letterbox ads in a side scrolling container. In such a unique platform such as Messenger you could get a bit more creative. One such example: Suggested pages to message. This would get companies leads and keep people on the Messenger platform. This might not be the best use, but with this product, Facebook can do better than just a re-skin of mobile banners.
- wodenokoto 10y ago
  I think these ads are supposed to start a chat with the sponsoring company.
  - quaz3l 10y ago
    Ahh I see that now, it still does take up a lot of real estate, and looks like a regular website ad link.
Semaphor 10y ago
> similar to how we surface birthday notifications or where we let you know if a friend is currently active on Messenger Guess it doesn't matter then. I'm rarely in the messenger homescreen, but when I am, those are just as annoying as ads anyway, with no way to remove them permanently (which they gleefully tell you when you hide them).
shubhamjain 10y ago
It's no surprise that Facebook is valued so much. Although, HN would loath this move but these ads don't feel intrusive at all. They are already making ~$2.5B in profit in a quarter and who knows, that could possibly be just scratching the surface. Facebook is smart enough to gradually up the amount of inventory without vexing its users. Zuckerberg's genius was to realise that their primary objective is to create an engagement platform and gradually move towards monetisation; grand vision, or plain luck, it's working marvellously.
ChankeyPathak 10y ago
Facebook has started giving preference to sponsored posts instead of my friends'. This is annoying.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
niftich 10y ago
Facebook has a few moves here. By doing a limited test in both Thailand, a high ad engagement, growing market [1][2], and Australia, a lower-engagement but high-spend market [3], they can gauge how advertisers respond in two very different markets, while keeping the more numerous [4] North American, Indian, and Brazilian users out of the fray -- and most reputational fallout -- for now. There is still a small possibility that they'll renege on this plan. Google, whose rivalry with Facebook in the area of messaging is longstanding [5], has largely squandered their potential in this space with a confusing product strategy, but have remained a dominant force in advertising thanks to Search, Youtube, Maps, and Android. Google has recently shuffled up its messaging lineup again by rebooting Google Voice, still having Hangouts, and pushing Duo and Allo, but Facebook provides a unified experience by having all of this in one app. Facebook is no doubt gambling on the fact that any user fallout about ads in Messenger won't be severe enough to cause an exodus of users to a competitor who poses a threat -- and right now, it's unclear if Google poses a threat or just continues to flail ineptly. Meanwhile, Snapchat doesn't pose a serious risk to Messenger, because Instagram has suitably cloned all of its features while also retaining the core product around curated photos; WhatsApp is a serious player in Brazil and India, is of course now run by Facebook in a brilliant example of market positioning; Skype has hemorrhaged marketshare due to Microsoft's (mis-)management; a few other smaller players target niche audiences (e.g. pseudonymous harder-to-monetize users, gamers, privacy-conscious users). This leaves their biggest threats European and Asian-operated platforms like WeChat, LINE, Viber, and Telegram. WeChat dominates the Chinese market due to various home turf advantages, while Telegram is popular in the Cyrillic world and MENA, Viber in Europe and Israel, and LINE in Japan. So far, none of them have challenged Facebook in its core markets. [1] http://www.tnsglobal.com/thailand-digital-ad-spend-report http://www.tnsglobal.com/thailand-digital-ad-spend-report [2] https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Facebook-Ad-Spending-Dominates-Digital-Thailand/1014562 https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Facebook-Ad-Spending-Domin... [3] http://www.smartinsights.com/digital-marketing-around-the-world/digital-marketing-in-australia/state-australian-digital-ad-spending-matters/ http://www.smartinsights.com/digital-marketing-around-the-wo... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-... [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465483
kirkdouglas 10y ago
Hopefully they won't show ads in Messenger Lite.
trojanh 10y ago
First Facebook Messenger and then WhatsApp. Ads are inevitable, it's just the matter of "when". We will live in ads. Google ads might decrease and such ads targeting personal apps are on the rise. This needs to stop.
type0 10y ago
I'm sure messenger will be so much better with "smart" ads. Let's say you are chatting with your friend and say: oh you know that delivery company with black minibuses and all of the sudden you get ads for UPS so you don't even have to google it. Off course FB and the Zuck will eventually take over the World. If not that, then he will definitely take over the World Wide Web.
bfrog 10y ago
This is why I've refused to install this crap on my phone, and have since uninstalled Facebook itself. I just use the web version and set it to desktop so it doesn't try and nerf the site.

45 points by Inconel 10y ago

Time to start using other apps more. I already have other chat app contacts for most everyone I use Facebook Messenger with, and there is no friction to switch.

eva1984 10y ago

Eww. Any replacement suggestion? Paid/subscription app is welcome, too.

hendzen 10y ago
signal
- mzzter 10y ago
  I second this.
joelrunyon 10y ago
Texting. Using your phone.
daveFNbuck 10y ago
There are so many apps available for messaging right now. I use SMS, Hangouts, Twitter. Many people like Snapchat and Allo. You can try asking your friends which ones they use.
- eva1984 10y ago
  Thx. But many of those are counting on ads too, like Twitter/Snapchat/Allo(maybe). I figure SMS might be my the only choice out there though.
  - gst 10y ago
    Every free centralized messaging service at some point needs to find a business model that finances the platform. Right now the (IMO) best choice are decentralized messaging protocols such as XMPP (https://xmpp.org/ https://xmpp.org/) or Matrix (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/). Similar to email you can (i) run your own server or decide which server to use (ii) communicate with people on other servers, and (iii) choose from multiple independent client and server implementations. For XMPP I recommend Conversations (https://conversations.im/ https://conversations.im/) as client on Android and ChatSecure as iOS client (https://chatsecure.org/ https://chatsecure.org/). An simple easy to use server implementation is Prosody (https://prosody.im/ https://prosody.im/), but ejabberd (https://www.ejabberd.im/ https://www.ejabberd.im/) is a good choice too. There are also multiple public servers if you don't want to run your own server instance, for example the XMPP server run by DuckDuckGo (https://duck.co/help/community-platform/xmpp https://duck.co/help/community-platform/xmpp). For Matrix Riot is the best client implementation which runs on multiple platforms (https://riot.im/ https://riot.im/). The (afaik) only usable server implementation is the reference implementation (https://matrix.org/ https://matrix.org/), but at some future point the currently pre-alpha Rust-based Ruma implementation (https://www.ruma.io/ https://www.ruma.io/) could be a good choice too. A nice thing about XMPP is that server-based transports can provide gateway-functionality to other networks. For example with Spectrum (http://spectrum.im/ http://spectrum.im/) it's possible to use your XMPP client of choice to chat with your friends that use Facebook Messenger.
    - voltagex_ 10y ago
      The problem is that many of my friends aren't going to switch. Using a gateway/proxy is good until the banhammer comes down. It's looking like my best option is to buy an iPhone for an iMessage/Signal one-two punch.
  - daveFNbuck 10y ago
    Twitter doesn't put ads in direct messages. I haven't used Snapchat or Allo myself, but the other ones I said I use don't have ads in messages.
beefield 10y ago
What's wrong with email? (Honest question. Based on this discussion it is not considered an option worth mentioning.)
- aylmao 10y ago
  At least in my case: - I get too much spam, so I tend to check email less. - It's not as "real time" as I sometimes need it to be. Sill feels more like mail than like conversation. - I like to know when people read my messages (I know there's apps that allow this, but it's not ubiquitous) - I like to know when people are typing (aka, are currently in the conversation) - Different email programs send/format emails differently. Some seem to keep all the replies attached to the bottom of the latest message in a way my email program can't figure out and collapse. I'm a fan of email tbh, and I wish more resources were invested in making it better, but I just don't think it lies in the same "space" as instant messaging.
- corobo 10y ago
  Email is not an instant messenger. Probably not as frequent anymore but it can take days for you to receive an email in some cases
wodenokoto 10y ago
Line and WeChat rely mostly and purchases.

executesorder66 10y ago

I don't understand why this is getting so many upvotes. Do people enjoy being flooded with ads wherever they go?

Inconel 10y ago
I submitted the post precisely because I dislike being flooded with ads wherever I go. I imagine most are upvoting it for similar reasons?
lucasmullens 10y ago
You only upvote good news?
CaveTech 10y ago
It's being upvoted for visibility. That said are people really complaining about ads on an otherwise totally free platform?
ajkjk 10y ago
Because it's something that HN users want to see on the site. Upvoting has nothing to do with endorsing what it says.

joelrunyon 10y ago

This is why it's annoying to me that so many people use Messenger. You know what I can use text anyone, anytime without having to worry about ads? My phone. I feel like there's a downward trend of companies using free stuff to "hook" people and then just feed them an inferior product over and over and over again (more ads, etc). It's not just creating worse products, but it's creating worse customers (who don't understand actual costs when they see other products that are "free"). What happened to just "paying for x, get x." As a customer, I miss those business models and as a business, I miss those customers.

ajkjk 10y ago
Maybe I'm just using the wrong app, but as far as I know texting on Android is garbage. Plus having to get phone numbers is annoying when we're already connected on FB. And phone numbers are randomly loseable when getting new phones, and I can't access my texts from my computer, and I lose texts if I get a new phone, and attaching media barely works, and messages get broken apart at a character limit, etc etc. I'd rather use Messenger any day. Of course I don't like that it's controlled by FB, because I hate FB, but I'm probably going to keep using it until it's replaced by another free social media platform that 'everyone' is on by default.
- dajohnson89 10y ago
  I use hangouts (project fi) for texts. It's great! But yeah, the default messenger app for Android isn't good IMO.
  - ajkjk 10y ago
    Hm. I really dislike Google's ecosystem, so I don't think I'm interested in switching to it. And my initial experiences with hangouts were super negative. I'm using an app (messenger?) that just puts a slightly better UI on Android texting, but it's still pretty bad. I should look into using Telegram, though. By far the biggest gripe with texting is that it's not persistent across devices. That's a core requirement that seems like it should have been solved a decade ago.

Smaug123 10y ago

If anyone's ever clicked on an ad on Facebook not-by-accident, I would love to know. Invariably Facebook's ads are either a) highly non-relevant [the vast majority of ads], or b) I already know about what they're advertising. I even try to help, to make the ads relevant: every so often, I go through Facebook's list of my interests to weed out the many ridiculous inferences Facebook has made about me. I bet that's more than 99% of the Facebook population does!

Kiro 10y ago
I find interesting stuff through Facebook ads all the time. It's on a level that I often miss that it's actually sponsored content and not from a page I like.

jasonlfunk 10y ago

I understand the complaint, but what is the alternative? As a social network - you cannot charge to be on the site; otherwise you will never be more than just a niche. Yes, people hate ads. But, if you were Facebook, what would you do differently?

chambo622 10y ago

Maybe this will be the tipping point that gets everyone to switch to Allo

Kiro 10y ago
Right.
corobo 10y ago
Allo needs to do more marketing first. What is an Allo?
- ahalam 10y ago
  Last week, someone on a Android podcast referred to it as "Alto"! No one remembers / knows what it is.

quaz3l 10y ago

I really don't like ads just like most everyone else, but I can't help but feel there is a missed opportunity here. Facebook just put classic mobile letterbox ads in a side scrolling container. In such a unique platform such as Messenger you could get a bit more creative. One such example: Suggested pages to message. This would get companies leads and keep people on the Messenger platform. This might not be the best use, but with this product, Facebook can do better than just a re-skin of mobile banners.

wodenokoto 10y ago
I think these ads are supposed to start a chat with the sponsoring company.
- quaz3l 10y ago
  Ahh I see that now, it still does take up a lot of real estate, and looks like a regular website ad link.

Semaphor 10y ago

> similar to how we surface birthday notifications or where we let you know if a friend is currently active on Messenger Guess it doesn't matter then. I'm rarely in the messenger homescreen, but when I am, those are just as annoying as ads anyway, with no way to remove them permanently (which they gleefully tell you when you hide them).

shubhamjain 10y ago

It's no surprise that Facebook is valued so much. Although, HN would loath this move but these ads don't feel intrusive at all. They are already making ~$2.5B in profit in a quarter and who knows, that could possibly be just scratching the surface. Facebook is smart enough to gradually up the amount of inventory without vexing its users. Zuckerberg's genius was to realise that their primary objective is to create an engagement platform and gradually move towards monetisation; grand vision, or plain luck, it's working marvellously.

ChankeyPathak 10y ago

Facebook has started giving preference to sponsored posts instead of my friends'. This is annoying.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

niftich 10y ago

Facebook has a few moves here. By doing a limited test in both Thailand, a high ad engagement, growing market [1][2], and Australia, a lower-engagement but high-spend market [3], they can gauge how advertisers respond in two very different markets, while keeping the more numerous [4] North American, Indian, and Brazilian users out of the fray -- and most reputational fallout -- for now. There is still a small possibility that they'll renege on this plan. Google, whose rivalry with Facebook in the area of messaging is longstanding [5], has largely squandered their potential in this space with a confusing product strategy, but have remained a dominant force in advertising thanks to Search, Youtube, Maps, and Android. Google has recently shuffled up its messaging lineup again by rebooting Google Voice, still having Hangouts, and pushing Duo and Allo, but Facebook provides a unified experience by having all of this in one app. Facebook is no doubt gambling on the fact that any user fallout about ads in Messenger won't be severe enough to cause an exodus of users to a competitor who poses a threat -- and right now, it's unclear if Google poses a threat or just continues to flail ineptly. Meanwhile, Snapchat doesn't pose a serious risk to Messenger, because Instagram has suitably cloned all of its features while also retaining the core product around curated photos; WhatsApp is a serious player in Brazil and India, is of course now run by Facebook in a brilliant example of market positioning; Skype has hemorrhaged marketshare due to Microsoft's (mis-)management; a few other smaller players target niche audiences (e.g. pseudonymous harder-to-monetize users, gamers, privacy-conscious users). This leaves their biggest threats European and Asian-operated platforms like WeChat, LINE, Viber, and Telegram. WeChat dominates the Chinese market due to various home turf advantages, while Telegram is popular in the Cyrillic world and MENA, Viber in Europe and Israel, and LINE in Japan. So far, none of them have challenged Facebook in its core markets. [1] http://www.tnsglobal.com/thailand-digital-ad-spend-report http://www.tnsglobal.com/thailand-digital-ad-spend-report [2] https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Facebook-Ad-Spending-Dominates-Digital-Thailand/1014562 https://www.emarketer.com/Article/Facebook-Ad-Spending-Domin... [3] http://www.smartinsights.com/digital-marketing-around-the-world/digital-marketing-in-australia/state-australian-digital-ad-spending-matters/ http://www.smartinsights.com/digital-marketing-around-the-wo... [4] https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-based-on-number-of-facebook-users/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/268136/top-15-countries-... [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13465483

kirkdouglas 10y ago

Hopefully they won't show ads in Messenger Lite.

trojanh 10y ago

First Facebook Messenger and then WhatsApp. Ads are inevitable, it's just the matter of "when". We will live in ads. Google ads might decrease and such ads targeting personal apps are on the rise. This needs to stop.

type0 10y ago

I'm sure messenger will be so much better with "smart" ads. Let's say you are chatting with your friend and say: oh you know that delivery company with black minibuses and all of the sudden you get ads for UPS so you don't even have to google it. Off course FB and the Zuck will eventually take over the World. If not that, then he will definitely take over the World Wide Web.

bfrog 10y ago

This is why I've refused to install this crap on my phone, and have since uninstalled Facebook itself. I just use the web version and set it to desktop so it doesn't try and nerf the site.