7 ms·

Why not Glock, I wonder. If you're going to go striker fired anyway, Glock is the Kalashnikov of handguns. Simple as can be, and just keeps going no matter what

Why not Glock, I wonder. If you're going to go striker fired anyway, Glock is the Kalashnikov of handguns. Simple as can be, and just keeps going no matter what. I have a Sig P226, it's a fine gun, I'm much more accurate with it (shooting stationary paper targets), but if you asked me what I'd take to a war zone, I would take a Glock 17 or a Glock 19. Much less of a chance that it'll crap out on me at the worst possible moment, which is an important feature, when your life is on the line, IMO.

gravypod 10y ago
The Glock has long been the standard for reliability but it is far from a comfortable platform. It's also come to a point where they seem to have stalled on good ideas for their product. The p320 has a great trigger and contours better then the Glock to most people's hand. It's the same reason why Berretta won out. I wouldn't want my buddy armed with a Glock if they had to shoot at people two to three inches to the side if myself. I also don't want something made of plastic if I'm rolling around in solvents if I'm working some kind of maintenance job.
- general_ai 10y ago
  Well, I'll admit I haven't yet tried the P320. I have no doubt Sig can make a great gun, especially if they decide not to overengineer the heck out of everything.
- fapjacks 10y ago
  Have you ever fired an issue Beretta? Those things are not the same beautiful weapons I've fired on civilian ranges. They're Berettas in name only. The same thing will happen to the P320: It will be a mass-manufactured weapon by the lowest bidder, with the name "Sig Sauer" etched on the side. And in fact, most probably Sig will license out the design to other manufacturers, so it won't even be Sig manufacturing. It will be an "okay" sidearm that works in most situations. But it sure af won't be the beautiful weapon most people are expecting. I'm saying this as a huge fan of Sig firearms, but from the realist perspective of a long-time infantry veteran.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    Really I didn't know they subcontracted the manufacturing out. That doesn't make sense at all to test the pre-pro sample and then choose based on that. If they were going to do that then Glock would be the cheapest option. The best Glocks are 0% original Glock parts so I'd assume they'd have an easier time finding manufacturers that could do quality at a lower price point.
    - jdietrich 10y ago
      >That doesn't make sense at all to test the pre-pro sample and then choose based on that. Welcome to the Kafkaesque nightmare that is military procurement. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to-bottom.html http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to-...
  - knz 10y ago
    > Have you ever fired an issue Beretta? Those things are not the same beautiful weapons I've fired on civilian ranges. Is that the design or the use? I assume that the average civilian weapon probably goes through orders of magnitude less ammunition.
    - fapjacks 10y ago
      Yes, you're right, Army firearms go through a ton of rounds, but I've pulled brand new Berettas out of the plastic and they're just not the same weapon. I mean, they're the "same weapon" but they're just not the same. The Berettas I've fired in the civilian world are virtually night and day compared to the ones manufactured for the Army, the ones I've seen and used. It isn't fraud, but it isn't the same sidearm. Sig Sauer firearms are beautiful and built to some pretty tight specs. I think the only Sig firearm I've ever had problems with was the P250 subcompact, which had a weird problem with the ejector. They fixed it for free, though, and I haven't had a problem since, many rounds later. This P320 is going to have the same "problem": It's going to be a P320, but not really the Sig Sauer most people are expecting it to be, and probably not even manufactured by Sig Sauer.
aplomb 10y ago
Glock was out of the running because lack of a "real" safety and their unwillingness to add one
- rbcgerard 10y ago
  What do you mean by a real safety? Does the sig 320 have a manual safety?
- general_ai 10y ago
  They have the only "real" safety: keep your finger out of the trigger guard. :-)
  - bnolsen 10y ago
    or for conceal carry...don't catch your shirt on the trigger...
    - general_ai 10y ago
      Glocks have triggers that are pretty heavy, and you don't have to carry with a round in the chamber unless you're in _really_ bad places. Safety has its own issues: what if you don't completely disengage it or forget to do it at all? What if you forget to engage it and do something stupid because you thought your gun was on safety?
    - RyJones 10y ago
      Who carries without a holster?
      - PhantomGremlin 10y ago
        Both Jules and Vincent. Don't movies reflect real life?
        RyJones 10y ago
        Plaxico Burress as well. I did notice the little things in Europe, though; that part of the movie reflected reality.
rbcgerard 10y ago
Looks like the Marines might be taking the first steps in that direction https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/glock-19-pistols-approved-for-marsoc-operators/23548847/ https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/g...
probablybanned 10y ago
After over a hundred years of iteration on the semiautomatic combat pistol, the top tier offerings from the respected manufacturers are all equivalent and fit for purpose. They pass the stress tests. The various pistols I've owned from Sig, CZ, Walther have all gotten up into the low thousands of rounds with zero malfunctions. Boring! The only interesting development has been the convergence of all the major players on the Glock-style striker fired system, due mainly I think to the consistent first-round trigger pull which is a big deal for practical shooting, and a cultural shift towards accepting the... shall we say, less idiot-proof design. Although, everyone except Glock seems to agree that it's a bad idea to require a trigger pull as part of the takedown procedure. e: And the "low thousands" is because I got tired of spending so much money on ammo
- general_ai 10y ago
  I thought that too initially, regarding the takedown procedure. There are even videos on YT of people shooting their walls. Nowadays removing the mag and racking the slide is muscle memory. It also happens to be the only way to make sure the gun is well and truly safe.
  - probablybanned 10y ago
    Yeah absolutely, they're called negligent discharges for a reason and I wouldn't personally hesitate to buy a Glock. However, there is a distinction in that the essentially safetyless, essentially SAO trigger system is fundamental to the performance of the gun's function, whereas the takedown procedure is more of a peculiar wart of the design. So those idiots end up shooting their walls (and potentially other people) for no reason other than that Gaston Glock didn't want to compromise on the parts count. Typical engineer, I suppose.
234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
Sig p226 performs better than a glock in reliability tests. Glocks perform very poorly in water, for example. They fail the standard over-the-beach test, as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iahKNVj44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iahKNVj44 while the p226 passes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbPBGME0No https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbPBGME0No Also p226 is made of metal and glock is polymer. Metal > plastic. I could club someone over the head with a p226 and never have to worry that the frame will crack.

gravypod 10y ago

The Glock has long been the standard for reliability but it is far from a comfortable platform. It's also come to a point where they seem to have stalled on good ideas for their product. The p320 has a great trigger and contours better then the Glock to most people's hand. It's the same reason why Berretta won out. I wouldn't want my buddy armed with a Glock if they had to shoot at people two to three inches to the side if myself. I also don't want something made of plastic if I'm rolling around in solvents if I'm working some kind of maintenance job.

general_ai 10y ago
Well, I'll admit I haven't yet tried the P320. I have no doubt Sig can make a great gun, especially if they decide not to overengineer the heck out of everything.
fapjacks 10y ago
Have you ever fired an issue Beretta? Those things are not the same beautiful weapons I've fired on civilian ranges. They're Berettas in name only. The same thing will happen to the P320: It will be a mass-manufactured weapon by the lowest bidder, with the name "Sig Sauer" etched on the side. And in fact, most probably Sig will license out the design to other manufacturers, so it won't even be Sig manufacturing. It will be an "okay" sidearm that works in most situations. But it sure af won't be the beautiful weapon most people are expecting. I'm saying this as a huge fan of Sig firearms, but from the realist perspective of a long-time infantry veteran.
- gravypod 10y ago
  Really I didn't know they subcontracted the manufacturing out. That doesn't make sense at all to test the pre-pro sample and then choose based on that. If they were going to do that then Glock would be the cheapest option. The best Glocks are 0% original Glock parts so I'd assume they'd have an easier time finding manufacturers that could do quality at a lower price point.
  - jdietrich 10y ago
    >That doesn't make sense at all to test the pre-pro sample and then choose based on that. Welcome to the Kafkaesque nightmare that is military procurement. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to-bottom.html http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/03/books/corrupt-from-top-to-...
- knz 10y ago
  > Have you ever fired an issue Beretta? Those things are not the same beautiful weapons I've fired on civilian ranges. Is that the design or the use? I assume that the average civilian weapon probably goes through orders of magnitude less ammunition.
  - fapjacks 10y ago
    Yes, you're right, Army firearms go through a ton of rounds, but I've pulled brand new Berettas out of the plastic and they're just not the same weapon. I mean, they're the "same weapon" but they're just not the same. The Berettas I've fired in the civilian world are virtually night and day compared to the ones manufactured for the Army, the ones I've seen and used. It isn't fraud, but it isn't the same sidearm. Sig Sauer firearms are beautiful and built to some pretty tight specs. I think the only Sig firearm I've ever had problems with was the P250 subcompact, which had a weird problem with the ejector. They fixed it for free, though, and I haven't had a problem since, many rounds later. This P320 is going to have the same "problem": It's going to be a P320, but not really the Sig Sauer most people are expecting it to be, and probably not even manufactured by Sig Sauer.

aplomb 10y ago

Glock was out of the running because lack of a "real" safety and their unwillingness to add one

rbcgerard 10y ago
What do you mean by a real safety? Does the sig 320 have a manual safety?
general_ai 10y ago
They have the only "real" safety: keep your finger out of the trigger guard. :-)
- bnolsen 10y ago
  or for conceal carry...don't catch your shirt on the trigger...
  - general_ai 10y ago
    Glocks have triggers that are pretty heavy, and you don't have to carry with a round in the chamber unless you're in _really_ bad places. Safety has its own issues: what if you don't completely disengage it or forget to do it at all? What if you forget to engage it and do something stupid because you thought your gun was on safety?
  - RyJones 10y ago
    Who carries without a holster?
    - PhantomGremlin 10y ago
      Both Jules and Vincent. Don't movies reflect real life?
      - RyJones 10y ago
        Plaxico Burress as well. I did notice the little things in Europe, though; that part of the movie reflected reality.

rbcgerard 10y ago

Looks like the Marines might be taking the first steps in that direction https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/glock-19-pistols-approved-for-marsoc-operators/23548847/ https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/02/17/g...

probablybanned 10y ago

After over a hundred years of iteration on the semiautomatic combat pistol, the top tier offerings from the respected manufacturers are all equivalent and fit for purpose. They pass the stress tests. The various pistols I've owned from Sig, CZ, Walther have all gotten up into the low thousands of rounds with zero malfunctions. Boring! The only interesting development has been the convergence of all the major players on the Glock-style striker fired system, due mainly I think to the consistent first-round trigger pull which is a big deal for practical shooting, and a cultural shift towards accepting the... shall we say, less idiot-proof design. Although, everyone except Glock seems to agree that it's a bad idea to require a trigger pull as part of the takedown procedure. e: And the "low thousands" is because I got tired of spending so much money on ammo

general_ai 10y ago
I thought that too initially, regarding the takedown procedure. There are even videos on YT of people shooting their walls. Nowadays removing the mag and racking the slide is muscle memory. It also happens to be the only way to make sure the gun is well and truly safe.
- probablybanned 10y ago
  Yeah absolutely, they're called negligent discharges for a reason and I wouldn't personally hesitate to buy a Glock. However, there is a distinction in that the essentially safetyless, essentially SAO trigger system is fundamental to the performance of the gun's function, whereas the takedown procedure is more of a peculiar wart of the design. So those idiots end up shooting their walls (and potentially other people) for no reason other than that Gaston Glock didn't want to compromise on the parts count. Typical engineer, I suppose.

234dd57d2c8db 10y ago

Sig p226 performs better than a glock in reliability tests. Glocks perform very poorly in water, for example. They fail the standard over-the-beach test, as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iahKNVj44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5iahKNVj44 while the p226 passes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbPBGME0No https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlbPBGME0No Also p226 is made of metal and glock is polymer. Metal > plastic. I could club someone over the head with a p226 and never have to worry that the frame will crack.