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> I don't think you can say anybodies fear is unfounded. I also can't guarantee they won't get diabetes or heart disease, or fall off a ladder, or be hit by on

> I don't think you can say anybodies fear is unfounded. I also can't guarantee they won't get diabetes or heart disease, or fall off a ladder, or be hit by one of the passing cars. All of which are vastly more likely to happen than being shot, which itself is an order of magnitude more likely than an innocent person being shot. (ie, not robbing a drug dealer, etc) Dead is dead, and a car gets you there just as quickly. Focusing on one is silly. (Unless you're a crossing-guard, for instance.) I normally see the irrational fear (crypto-racism) argument from people who want to limit refugees. You've got a higher chance of dying from someone falling off a ladder onto you than being killed by a terrorist hiding as a refugee. I'm not saying you're a crypto-racist, I'm saying this sloppy thinking is used to support other nonsense arguments because it's so empty you can use it to support anything.

tyleraldrich 10y ago
For the record, I personally am 100% fine with gun laws as they stand now. I am more likely to get hit by a car walking to work. Now, for the sake of this debate I started: I was arguing that the OP couldn't just claim his friends fears of guns were unfounded. Your counter claim is that it is an irrational fear founded in "crypto-racism". If racism is the reason, it would mean the fear is irrational but founded. So I'm not sure what you're arguing.
- EdHominem 10y ago
  > If racism is the reason, it would mean the fear is irrational but founded. So I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not sure how something can be irrational without also being unfounded. Whatever validity there is to say "I hate X people" is lost when lies are used as the supposed justification. These people are already racist and are grasping at any straws (currently the fake rape-epidemic stories) as if that caused their racism, but next week it'll be back to mis-interpreted IQ tests, etc.
richmarr 10y ago
> I normally see the irrational fear (crypto-racism) argument from people who want to limit refugees I question your probability argument that concerns around guns are irrational. Just because heart disease is the most common cause of death doesn't mean concern about anything else is irrational. I think being afraid of something that can kill you is absolutely rational. > All of which are vastly more likely to happen than being shot, which itself is an order of magnitude more likely than an innocent person being shot. If fear of guns is irrational then why do licence-holders need them?
- EdHominem 10y ago
  > If fear of guns is irrational then why do licence-holders need them? Often for non-gun related threats. And also because they're probably in riskier demographics. Or maybe because they just enjoy shooting. > Just because heart disease is the most common cause of death doesn't mean concern about anything else is irrational. Worry is zero-sum. The time you spend worrying about being shot is time you aren't spending worrying about your trans-fat intake, or simply enjoying life. > I think being afraid of something that can kill you is absolutely rational. Afraid of, or worried about in general? If a bad guy is swinging a gun around, yes you're right to be afraid. There's a direct action that will make you safer - leaving - and you should take that if possible. But in general to worry about a bad guy with a gun is stealing attention from real problems with actual solutions.
  - richmarr 10y ago
    > Often for non-gun related threats. People carry guns because they're afraid of all the dangerous people out there not carrying guns? Uh huh
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      Considering police, security workers, private investigators, etc, are a majority of gun carriers, yes, many of them are rightly afraid of people with knives or improvised weapons.

tyleraldrich 10y ago

For the record, I personally am 100% fine with gun laws as they stand now. I am more likely to get hit by a car walking to work. Now, for the sake of this debate I started: I was arguing that the OP couldn't just claim his friends fears of guns were unfounded. Your counter claim is that it is an irrational fear founded in "crypto-racism". If racism is the reason, it would mean the fear is irrational but founded. So I'm not sure what you're arguing.

EdHominem 10y ago
> If racism is the reason, it would mean the fear is irrational but founded. So I'm not sure what you're arguing. I'm not sure how something can be irrational without also being unfounded. Whatever validity there is to say "I hate X people" is lost when lies are used as the supposed justification. These people are already racist and are grasping at any straws (currently the fake rape-epidemic stories) as if that caused their racism, but next week it'll be back to mis-interpreted IQ tests, etc.

richmarr 10y ago

> I normally see the irrational fear (crypto-racism) argument from people who want to limit refugees I question your probability argument that concerns around guns are irrational. Just because heart disease is the most common cause of death doesn't mean concern about anything else is irrational. I think being afraid of something that can kill you is absolutely rational. > All of which are vastly more likely to happen than being shot, which itself is an order of magnitude more likely than an innocent person being shot. If fear of guns is irrational then why do licence-holders need them?

EdHominem 10y ago
> If fear of guns is irrational then why do licence-holders need them? Often for non-gun related threats. And also because they're probably in riskier demographics. Or maybe because they just enjoy shooting. > Just because heart disease is the most common cause of death doesn't mean concern about anything else is irrational. Worry is zero-sum. The time you spend worrying about being shot is time you aren't spending worrying about your trans-fat intake, or simply enjoying life. > I think being afraid of something that can kill you is absolutely rational. Afraid of, or worried about in general? If a bad guy is swinging a gun around, yes you're right to be afraid. There's a direct action that will make you safer - leaving - and you should take that if possible. But in general to worry about a bad guy with a gun is stealing attention from real problems with actual solutions.
- richmarr 10y ago
  > Often for non-gun related threats. People carry guns because they're afraid of all the dangerous people out there not carrying guns? Uh huh
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    Considering police, security workers, private investigators, etc, are a majority of gun carriers, yes, many of them are rightly afraid of people with knives or improvised weapons.