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A 4 year degree doesn't guarantee success and no degree doesn't mean you can't be successful. But, having a 4 year degree makes it easier to be successful.

• mwcremer 16y ago
  ...at jobs that require a four year degree. I think the point of the article is there are plenty of jobs people can do that don't require a four year degree.
• xenophanes 16y ago
  A degree makes it easier to be successful at big companies with dumb management -- but why work there? It's no big deal at better places. If you don't get a degree, you can spend less time learning at least as much relevant stuff.
  • InclinedPlane 16y ago
    "A degree makes it easier to be successful at big companies with dumb management -- but why work there?" Because "big companies with dumb management" hire a lot of people and pay them well? Most people aren't fortunate enough to have their dream job quite yet and their number one priority for work is just getting the bills paid.
    • xenophanes 16y ago
      The average 18 yo considering college doesn't have bills yet. IMO they should aim for the life they want, and do their best to make it work out, not sacrifice 4 years to make a semi-OK possible future work out more smoothly. BTW if you're going to take semi-lame jobs, you only have to get hired a few times in your life. Optimizing the job search part isn't a great use of time -- even if no college doubles your lifetime job search time, going to college would still be a loss in that respect.
      • hugh3 16y ago
        On the other hand, two thirds of 18yos don't know what kind of life they want. And of those that do, two thirds will probably have completely changed their minds by the time they're 25. Some people are incredibly driven towards a particular set of goals, but the majority of people just sorta drift through life figuring things out as they go.
        • xenophanes 16y ago
          If you don't know what kind of life you want, how does college help? It pushes you to pick a major, and to pursue a lifestyle where attending college was not a waste of time and money. And college is extraordinarily boring if you aren't already strongly interested in what you're studying. To get a good value out of college at minimum you need some initiative, and some understanding of what you want to get out of it. You need goals or you will just drift through completely pointlessly -- as many people do. Of course one can try a variety of things at college. But one can do that outside of college too. Shrug.
          • hugh3 16y ago
            Oh, I never said that going to college would help, I'm just saying that your "aim for the kind of life you want" advice isn't helpful to most school-leavers. I'd agree that if a kid leaves school and doesn't know what he wants to do then going to university may not be the best option at all. Taking a few years off to do something else is a great idea and shouldn't be stigmatized as much as it is. Heck, if you really want to shake up the education industry then perhaps it should be compulsory: have a university that won't let you in until you demonstrate that you've spent eighteen months in the workforce doing something impressive.
• gte910h 16y ago
  The point of the article is you're not likely to obtain a four year degree by going to college, especially not for only 4 years: "But federal statistics show that just 36 percent of full-time students starting college in 2001 earned a four-year degree within that allotted time. Even with an extra two years to finish, that group's graduation rate increased only to 57 percent." Technical education has a much more certain payoff. Bookkeeping, welding, plumbing, nursing, all are possible with 2 year degrees and are ways to get a good job and a good career. A 2 year nursing degree is a relatively fast way to get into a good income and relatively flexible schedule, allowing further study. And economists are backing up the 'Don't even waste the money, just go straight vocational' approach.
• InclinedPlane 16y ago
  Sadly, a 4 year degree has become more and more a requirement for a lot of jobs, regardless of talent and skills. Increasing credentialism of this sort will just lower the value of having a degree and also make it more necessary for every professional to have a 4 year degree (which is expensive even at the cheapest colleges). None of this is good.
  • SamAtt 16y ago
    I think you're missing the point. I don't think anyone is against education or certification of some kind. The problem is the quality of it. Academia is insular and has adopted the extremely broad mandate of "making better citizens" which has resulted in a lot of degree programs that are utterly useless. There was a post on HN just a few days ago from someone who was about to get a CS degree and who felt they had no idea how to actually program. That's the problem and what this article describes is a trend in which those useless degrees are losing favor while more specialized education gains it.
    • hugh3 16y ago
      Academia is insular and has adopted the extremely broad mandate of "making better citizens" which has resulted in a lot of degree programs that are utterly useless. Perhaps, though academia has been specialising in the teaching of mostly-useless knowledge since at least the days of ancient Rome, so it's not likely to be a transient phenomenon.
• jcromartie 16y ago
  It depends on how you define success. If you mean "landing a job that pays well" then certainly a degree gives you an edge. If you mean "contributing something meaningful to the world" then I'd say the importance of a 4-year degree approaches zero. There are so many people making incredible contributions to humanity without college degrees, and so many people simply fretting away their lives in cubicles making slightly more money than they would have without a degree.