> I have no idea why you think that seeing a fake ID helps "stop the attack from scaling". You don't have a photo of "the bad guy", you have a photo of somebody

> I have no idea why you think that seeing a fake ID helps "stop the attack from scaling". You don't have a photo of "the bad guy", you have a photo of somebody who did what they were asked for $20 and a packet of smokes. Yes, and does talking to hobos scale? Can you do that online? Wouldn't they rat you out? Don't they lounge in front of shops that would have cameras? And if you decide to go through all this, why not ask them to receive money-transfers or something more profitable? > And again, validation is not a job for one individual, imaginary million dollar bonds don't make that any less true. No, validation isn't performed by the bond - the bond just gives the employee motivation to do their job. And a disincentive for selling out. > Usually domain validation is automated > Such an appliance, able to make a determination regardless of its environment, does not and cannot exist. Yeah. I totally agree with one of your statements. The CA system with shared authority over one big zone just can't provide a high level of assurance. The games we play to try to keep Chinese CAs from signing certs for our domains (pinning, etc) are ridiculous. People who try that are playing with fire, and all to avoid issues from the broken model. The issue is that the CA system is fundamentally flawed. It'll never be that good so trying is like gilding a pig. It's good enough for the sort of system I'm describing, but the things you discuss are so over the top for a fundamentally flawed system. Which is why no CA really takes it seriously - they know they're just collecting rent. In the current system we'll either kill the CAs one after another as someone tricks them into creating certs they shouldn't, or we'll end up with a collection of losers we can't kill because we know the next ones would be just as incompetent. Much like the banks. What we need to do is adjust our expectations to what we can actually deliver, and are willing to pay for. All we need is a small roadblock you can't accomplish online and certificate transparency to make sure you see everything the system signs.