5 ms·

So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. Are you expecting to be ab

by ddito 10y ago

So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. Are you expecting to be able to go through the whole hiring process successfully with another person in 5 working days? My best guess would be that you did not like the person that much but that is missing the point

46Bit 10y ago
See what happened with the OP. They pushed back one week, and are now close to doing it again. As mentioned above there's scope for this to continue indefinitely until the new employer puts their foot down.
- Ensorceled 10y ago
  Exactly. The second time is when the ultimatums start. Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company.
  - awa 10y ago
    > Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company. Why? I did that else my family would have without health insurance (and income) for a while..
    - r00fus 10y ago
      Many employers have coverage till EOM. But I've done this (no break between jobs) more than once, so I'm not sure what the issues is. First several weeks will be ramp-up anyway.
      - ghaff 10y ago
        In the US, there's typically COBRA as well so you can continue your previous insurance for up to about 18 months--without your previous employer co-pays of course.
        r00fus 10y ago
        Have you enrolled in this? It's really not for short periods, and is paperwork intensive. If I want to avoid coverage loss, I'll go with back-to-back employment rather than risk a few days and having to enroll in COBRA.
        ghaff 10y ago
        It was quite a few years back but I don't remember it as being a big deal after I was briefly laid off post-9/11. As I recall I filled out forms to be covered but never actually paid in because there's a grace period and I got a new job after about a month. All things medical can get complicated, but COBRA should just be a continuation of your existing coverage.
    - Ensorceled 10y ago
      Ah, I'm Canadian, many developers take some time off between gigs to recharge. Our health care is somewhat tied to our employer but it's not as bad as the US. I'm more concerned about the scenario where a developer has been working 12+ hour days on a release and then 50 or so hours later is now trying to ramp up on at our company.
  - zacksjoden 10y ago
    Not a developer, but what do you mean in your second paragraph? Do you think people should take more time between jobs or spend part of their (generally two weeks) notice as vacation? Just wondering.
MaulingMonkey 10y ago
> So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? That's only half the coin - the other half is "would you rather restart the hiring process than hire someone showing red flags (not sticking to their commitments / showing up on time) before they even start the job?" Sick? Family emergency? Funeral? Sure. Can't let go of your old job? Hmm... > From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. From what I've read, so is hiring the wrong person and then having to fire them or have them quit - all that time wasted getting them up to speed.
- chillacy 10y ago
  Well at the very least it seems like they'd have as much loyalty for their new job and be willing to stay an extra week for you too.
  - MaulingMonkey 10y ago
    It'd be nice to think that's the case! On the other hand, they may be getting cold feet about leaving all their old colleagues and friends behind and about to accept a generous counteroffer that they haven't yet had time to formalize. Or perhaps they remembered they really hate PHP. Or the state they'd be moving to. Or gotten a last minute job offer from someone else that they like way better. Or...
Ensorceled 10y ago
I think you are projecting. It's an ultimatum: "choose which company your loyalties lie with". The two times I've reached the point of delivering that ultimatum the developers showed up. If the person is not that committed they're going to be gone anyway in three to six months which is far more expensive in my experience. That said, I've also given developers another week to wrap things up, more time because of illness and family obligations, and a couple more weeks to start when they asked because "they were still burnt out". It's not like I throw my hands up and the first road block and shred the resume.
- JamesBarney 10y ago
  I bet both of those developers were thankful they had something concrete they could go to their old job with and say "Sorry, can't do it".
  - ghaff 10y ago
    If they'd been around the block a few times, they'd probably have the confidence to simply say that they didn't have a choice. But for someone close to starting out, it can be nice to have someone else effectively make the decision for them.
- user5994461 10y ago
  > If the person is not that committed they're going to be gone anyway in three to six months which is far more expensive in my experience. If the person wants to stay to finish one thing -despite the terrible workplace-, that's actually a major display of [misplaced] commitment.

by ddito 10y ago

46Bit 10y ago

See what happened with the OP. They pushed back one week, and are now close to doing it again. As mentioned above there's scope for this to continue indefinitely until the new employer puts their foot down.

Ensorceled 10y ago
Exactly. The second time is when the ultimatums start. Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company.
- awa 10y ago
  > Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company. Why? I did that else my family would have without health insurance (and income) for a while..
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Many employers have coverage till EOM. But I've done this (no break between jobs) more than once, so I'm not sure what the issues is. First several weeks will be ramp-up anyway.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      In the US, there's typically COBRA as well so you can continue your previous insurance for up to about 18 months--without your previous employer co-pays of course.
      - r00fus 10y ago
        Have you enrolled in this? It's really not for short periods, and is paperwork intensive. If I want to avoid coverage loss, I'll go with back-to-back employment rather than risk a few days and having to enroll in COBRA.
        ghaff 10y ago
        It was quite a few years back but I don't remember it as being a big deal after I was briefly laid off post-9/11. As I recall I filled out forms to be covered but never actually paid in because there's a grace period and I got a new job after about a month. All things medical can get complicated, but COBRA should just be a continuation of your existing coverage.
  - Ensorceled 10y ago
    Ah, I'm Canadian, many developers take some time off between gigs to recharge. Our health care is somewhat tied to our employer but it's not as bad as the US. I'm more concerned about the scenario where a developer has been working 12+ hour days on a release and then 50 or so hours later is now trying to ramp up on at our company.
- zacksjoden 10y ago
  Not a developer, but what do you mean in your second paragraph? Do you think people should take more time between jobs or spend part of their (generally two weeks) notice as vacation? Just wondering.

MaulingMonkey 10y ago

> So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? That's only half the coin - the other half is "would you rather restart the hiring process than hire someone showing red flags (not sticking to their commitments / showing up on time) before they even start the job?" Sick? Family emergency? Funeral? Sure. Can't let go of your old job? Hmm... > From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. From what I've read, so is hiring the wrong person and then having to fire them or have them quit - all that time wasted getting them up to speed.

chillacy 10y ago
Well at the very least it seems like they'd have as much loyalty for their new job and be willing to stay an extra week for you too.
- MaulingMonkey 10y ago
  It'd be nice to think that's the case! On the other hand, they may be getting cold feet about leaving all their old colleagues and friends behind and about to accept a generous counteroffer that they haven't yet had time to formalize. Or perhaps they remembered they really hate PHP. Or the state they'd be moving to. Or gotten a last minute job offer from someone else that they like way better. Or...

Ensorceled 10y ago

I think you are projecting. It's an ultimatum: "choose which company your loyalties lie with". The two times I've reached the point of delivering that ultimatum the developers showed up. If the person is not that committed they're going to be gone anyway in three to six months which is far more expensive in my experience. That said, I've also given developers another week to wrap things up, more time because of illness and family obligations, and a couple more weeks to start when they asked because "they were still burnt out". It's not like I throw my hands up and the first road block and shred the resume.

JamesBarney 10y ago
I bet both of those developers were thankful they had something concrete they could go to their old job with and say "Sorry, can't do it".
- ghaff 10y ago
  If they'd been around the block a few times, they'd probably have the confidence to simply say that they didn't have a choice. But for someone close to starting out, it can be nice to have someone else effectively make the decision for them.
user5994461 10y ago
> If the person is not that committed they're going to be gone anyway in three to six months which is far more expensive in my experience. If the person wants to stay to finish one thing -despite the terrible workplace-, that's actually a major display of [misplaced] commitment.