7 ms·

I think a lot of rich people underestimate the importance of law and order which allows them to benfit-from/wield their wealth. A bunch of guns, food packets or

I think a lot of rich people underestimate the importance of law and order which allows them to benfit-from/wield their wealth. A bunch of guns, food packets or gold bars are unlikely to be of any use in case of a true catastrophe. The sense of power that wealth brings evaporates quickly, a quick litmus test is how few wealthy like Maddoff can escape law enforcement, even when having complete knowledge of their own certain doom in near future.

debt 10y ago
The wealthy in this scenario assume they'd be the first to know of the fall of civilization. If they were further down on the chain, still would require a ton of infrastructure(planes, roads, etc.) to move people to these locations.
arouqa 10y ago
In the past, they would have founded their own nation with a personal army by now.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Maintaining the loyalty of those you invite to protect you can be a bit tricky - according to one source that's how the Anglo Saxons were invited to what became England to help protect a post Roman society of Britons from attacks from what is now Scotland (Picts and Dalriadic Scots): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_settlement_of_Britain#Gildas.27_De_Excidio_et_Conquestu_Britanniae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_settlement_of_Brit... I'd expect the loyalty to a rich employer would last right up to the point where money becomes worthless - after that exactly what bargaining power would a rich person have? Up to a certain point in history you achieved and maintained royal status largely by being a stupendous bad-ass...
  - Balgair 10y ago
    The quote: "There is no arguing with the barrel of a gun" springs to mind here. Money means nothing if you don't have the ability to protect it. Interestingly, regulations and the spaghetti mess that is the banking system kinda serve as a means of protection; only certain clerks know the safe pathway in the network of laws and files that otherwise hide dragons of fines and the dreaded lawyers.
  - arouqa 10y ago
    There needs to be a sense of shared purpose. I would think the easiest way would be to start a religious sect, as this would give you non-monetary legitimacy, akin to a modern day Mandate of Heaven or Divine Right of Kings. Or if religion isn't your flavor, then some type of philosophical/political/national organization. However, I think it works better with religion because of the afterlife component. It would also be best to get your followers when they're young. So perhaps start an educational fund that helps underprivileged families, with one of the requirements being to study your organization's ideology. Even better would be to fund multiple orphanages and have them run by members of your sect.
    - Apocryphon 10y ago
      The Mormons and Pentecostals will inherit the Earth (or at least LA): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925
    - arethuza 10y ago
      I wonder if something like the Cartasian Maths from Anathem might work?
true_religion 10y ago
Doomsday isn't going to happen tommorrow, but if you think its a possibility then it makes sense to sink money into a minature fortress now, then later as things worsen, grow outwards and invest in lesser protected zones for people who are aligned with you to join.
scandox 10y ago
Sadly this is very true. I think that ego plays a big part. It's hard for some people to accept that their achievements rest on a wider platform - especially if someone is used to operating in a relatively autocratic domain (i.e. in their own business).
unabridged 10y ago
I love how half of these plans all depend on workers transporting them. Yeah some guy in an armored SUV is going to pick you up and save you while leaving his family & friends to die.
Florin_Andrei 10y ago
The true litmus test is to look at history, during times when social order completely broke down. How did the elites fare then? Would the French revolution be a good example? Or is that event already biased against the elites? Or would a hypothetical future collapse of society be also biased against the elites?
Apocryphon 10y ago
The concept of privilege is often bandied around by social progressives, but if you strip away the ideological elements, it really just comes down to self-awareness. What are you reliant on? What does your success depend on? Count your blessings, and reciprocate. The libertarian inclination to portray human beings prospering on their own as Randian ubermensch is one of the worst ideas to have infected tech culture.

debt 10y ago

The wealthy in this scenario assume they'd be the first to know of the fall of civilization. If they were further down on the chain, still would require a ton of infrastructure(planes, roads, etc.) to move people to these locations.

arouqa 10y ago

In the past, they would have founded their own nation with a personal army by now.

arethuza 10y ago
Maintaining the loyalty of those you invite to protect you can be a bit tricky - according to one source that's how the Anglo Saxons were invited to what became England to help protect a post Roman society of Britons from attacks from what is now Scotland (Picts and Dalriadic Scots): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_settlement_of_Britain#Gildas.27_De_Excidio_et_Conquestu_Britanniae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_settlement_of_Brit... I'd expect the loyalty to a rich employer would last right up to the point where money becomes worthless - after that exactly what bargaining power would a rich person have? Up to a certain point in history you achieved and maintained royal status largely by being a stupendous bad-ass...
- Balgair 10y ago
  The quote: "There is no arguing with the barrel of a gun" springs to mind here. Money means nothing if you don't have the ability to protect it. Interestingly, regulations and the spaghetti mess that is the banking system kinda serve as a means of protection; only certain clerks know the safe pathway in the network of laws and files that otherwise hide dragons of fines and the dreaded lawyers.
- arouqa 10y ago
  There needs to be a sense of shared purpose. I would think the easiest way would be to start a religious sect, as this would give you non-monetary legitimacy, akin to a modern day Mandate of Heaven or Divine Right of Kings. Or if religion isn't your flavor, then some type of philosophical/political/national organization. However, I think it works better with religion because of the afterlife component. It would also be best to get your followers when they're young. So perhaps start an educational fund that helps underprivileged families, with one of the requirements being to study your organization's ideology. Even better would be to fund multiple orphanages and have them run by members of your sect.
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    The Mormons and Pentecostals will inherit the Earth (or at least LA): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925
  - arethuza 10y ago
    I wonder if something like the Cartasian Maths from Anathem might work?

true_religion 10y ago

Doomsday isn't going to happen tommorrow, but if you think its a possibility then it makes sense to sink money into a minature fortress now, then later as things worsen, grow outwards and invest in lesser protected zones for people who are aligned with you to join.

scandox 10y ago

Sadly this is very true. I think that ego plays a big part. It's hard for some people to accept that their achievements rest on a wider platform - especially if someone is used to operating in a relatively autocratic domain (i.e. in their own business).

unabridged 10y ago

I love how half of these plans all depend on workers transporting them. Yeah some guy in an armored SUV is going to pick you up and save you while leaving his family & friends to die.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago

The true litmus test is to look at history, during times when social order completely broke down. How did the elites fare then? Would the French revolution be a good example? Or is that event already biased against the elites? Or would a hypothetical future collapse of society be also biased against the elites?

Apocryphon 10y ago

The concept of privilege is often bandied around by social progressives, but if you strip away the ideological elements, it really just comes down to self-awareness. What are you reliant on? What does your success depend on? Count your blessings, and reciprocate. The libertarian inclination to portray human beings prospering on their own as Randian ubermensch is one of the worst ideas to have infected tech culture.