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Potential Trump Science Adviser Says 90 Percent of U.S. Colleges Will Disappear

14 points by woofyman 10y ago

rhapsodic 10y ago
I believe he's basically correct, but not to that extent. Selling degrees in "Gender Studies" for $200K is not a sustainable business model.
- linksnapzz 10y ago
  It can last for a surprising amount of time, if a third party provides sufficient subsidy, a tolerable payment plan, and in the end agrees to eat much of the cost nominally borne by the borrower. I forget which economist said it: "unsustainable things can go on for far longer than you'd expect, but then they stop far faster than you might anticipate."
- MisterBastahrd 10y ago
  Then the solution is not to abolish social science degrees, but to subsidize them.
  - rhapsodic 10y ago
    > Then the solution is not to abolish social science degrees, but to subsidize them. Quite the opposite. The reason a college education is so expensive in the US is because, in an effort to make it more affordable, it has been so heavily subsidized. Schools have diverted the subsidies away from students' pockets into their own, by hiring loads of administrative staff, building new luxurious facilities, etc. In a free market, if Gender Studies degrees provide value greater than their cost, and their cost is not extracted from hapless third parties (i.e. taxpayers), then they will exist.
    - MisterBastahrd 10y ago
      The "free market" is not free. Never has been, never will be. The promotion and dissemination of human knowledge is not restricted to business and STEM degrees, the value derived from them can't always be quantified as something so childishly simplistic as dollars and cents.
- Eridrus 10y ago
  So, 90% of colleges are providing 200k degrees in gender studies? The fact that a few of these examples exist doesn't mean the right answer is to tear the whole thing down like this guy clearly wants to. One of the issues I find when I try to obtain educational content online is that while there is a tonne of material on the basics of many subject, there is often very little advanced content. And it makes sense, since the advanced courses have fewer students too. As much as I like online education, and would really appreciate a system where we could dramatically cut the costs of providing education to people, I'm not convinced that we've found a model that actually works for the large amount of people we expect colleges to educate.
gdulli 10y ago
> Degrees themselves will become a thing of the past, Gelernter writes as they’re “gradually be replaced by certified transcripts.” Rather than a university conferring the degree, a “transcript” — that is, coursework showing that a student has successfully learned a given set of material — will be “vouched for” by a trusted institution like a think tank, newspaper, museum, or research lab. Interesting. Would it be a travesty or a blessing for people to start promoting themselves in the job market with credentials backed by Breitbart, a climate change denying institution, or a creationist museum? The benefits are obvious but pyrrhic.
perseusprime11 10y ago
O_O looks like they finally found a smart guy who is right. We now build skyscrapers in couple of years compared to pyramids in egypt but it still takes 14 years of professional training to be a doctor. Then we wonder why it takes so long to find a cure for something or go to Mars. Hmmm, Imagine being attacked in the Age of Empires game and it is taking forever to product soldiers to defend.
perseusprime11 10y ago
O_O looks like they finally found a smart guy who is right. We now build skyscrapers in couple of years compared to pyramids in egypt but it still takes 14 years of professional training to be a doctor. Then we wonder why it takes so long to find a cure for something or go to Mars. Hmmm, Imagine being attacked in the Age of Empires game and it is taking forever to manufacture your soldiers to defend.
xrd 10y ago
It is interesting to have read a thread on HN recently about product managers. Lots of them came from humanities degrees. I'm not saying there is extreme value in getting a humanities degree but I'm definitely doubtful that only people with technology degrees should run the country.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > I'm definitely doubtful that only people with technology degrees should run the country. Where has that been suggested?
cylinder 10y ago
I don't know that they will disappear; people will be even more desperate to get into white collar professions as more jobs disappear and classes continue to stratify. If we eliminated the ridiculous Federal credit firehose that keeps these bloated organizations alive, then they'd disappear, or at least scale down significantly. It doesn't take a whole lot of infrastructure to teach liberal arts.

14 points by woofyman 10y ago

I believe he's basically correct, but not to that extent. Selling degrees in "Gender Studies" for $200K is not a sustainable business model.

linksnapzz 10y ago
It can last for a surprising amount of time, if a third party provides sufficient subsidy, a tolerable payment plan, and in the end agrees to eat much of the cost nominally borne by the borrower. I forget which economist said it: "unsustainable things can go on for far longer than you'd expect, but then they stop far faster than you might anticipate."
MisterBastahrd 10y ago
Then the solution is not to abolish social science degrees, but to subsidize them.
- rhapsodic 10y ago
  > Then the solution is not to abolish social science degrees, but to subsidize them. Quite the opposite. The reason a college education is so expensive in the US is because, in an effort to make it more affordable, it has been so heavily subsidized. Schools have diverted the subsidies away from students' pockets into their own, by hiring loads of administrative staff, building new luxurious facilities, etc. In a free market, if Gender Studies degrees provide value greater than their cost, and their cost is not extracted from hapless third parties (i.e. taxpayers), then they will exist.
  - MisterBastahrd 10y ago
    The "free market" is not free. Never has been, never will be. The promotion and dissemination of human knowledge is not restricted to business and STEM degrees, the value derived from them can't always be quantified as something so childishly simplistic as dollars and cents.
Eridrus 10y ago
So, 90% of colleges are providing 200k degrees in gender studies? The fact that a few of these examples exist doesn't mean the right answer is to tear the whole thing down like this guy clearly wants to. One of the issues I find when I try to obtain educational content online is that while there is a tonne of material on the basics of many subject, there is often very little advanced content. And it makes sense, since the advanced courses have fewer students too. As much as I like online education, and would really appreciate a system where we could dramatically cut the costs of providing education to people, I'm not convinced that we've found a model that actually works for the large amount of people we expect colleges to educate.

gdulli 10y ago

> Degrees themselves will become a thing of the past, Gelernter writes as they’re “gradually be replaced by certified transcripts.” Rather than a university conferring the degree, a “transcript” — that is, coursework showing that a student has successfully learned a given set of material — will be “vouched for” by a trusted institution like a think tank, newspaper, museum, or research lab. Interesting. Would it be a travesty or a blessing for people to start promoting themselves in the job market with credentials backed by Breitbart, a climate change denying institution, or a creationist museum? The benefits are obvious but pyrrhic.

perseusprime11 10y ago

O_O looks like they finally found a smart guy who is right. We now build skyscrapers in couple of years compared to pyramids in egypt but it still takes 14 years of professional training to be a doctor. Then we wonder why it takes so long to find a cure for something or go to Mars. Hmmm, Imagine being attacked in the Age of Empires game and it is taking forever to product soldiers to defend.

perseusprime11 10y ago

xrd 10y ago

It is interesting to have read a thread on HN recently about product managers. Lots of them came from humanities degrees. I'm not saying there is extreme value in getting a humanities degree but I'm definitely doubtful that only people with technology degrees should run the country.

rhapsodic 10y ago
> I'm definitely doubtful that only people with technology degrees should run the country. Where has that been suggested?

cylinder 10y ago

I don't know that they will disappear; people will be even more desperate to get into white collar professions as more jobs disappear and classes continue to stratify. If we eliminated the ridiculous Federal credit firehose that keeps these bloated organizations alive, then they'd disappear, or at least scale down significantly. It doesn't take a whole lot of infrastructure to teach liberal arts.