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And as a consequence employers in France are reluctant as hell to employ people in permanent positions (indeterminate length contracts), because employment is b

And as a consequence employers in France are reluctant as hell to employ people in permanent positions (indeterminate length contracts), because employment is basically marriage. (I have a fairly biased view, half my colleagues are people who have left France partly because they preferred the freer job market here.) Here in Canada in certain professions there are additional requirements. As a licensed engineer you cannot just leave at any time; you cannot put your projects in jeopardy. (Software devs / "engineers" are not generally licensed engineers.) It's a decent system, for a lot of jobs 3 months is too much.

Symbiote 10y ago
The 3 month notice period doesn't make it difficult to dismiss staff. The rules about dismissing staff make it difficult to dismiss staff, and aren't much affected by the notice period.
AceJohnny2 10y ago
I'm a frenchman who left for the US. The 3-month long notice period does indeed sound insane, but it's not the reason it's hard to hire people. In fact, you got cause-and-effect the wrong way around. It's hard to fire people, which is why employers are hesitant to hire (and why the contractor business is so large). So as an employee, you're relatively safe. In return, the employer is relatively safe from an employee up-and-leaving, thanks to the 3-month notice. Of course, the secondary effects are huge: because the hiring market is less fluid, people will stick around bad situations longer, both employees and employers, with expected consequences. I won't detail them here, in case my anecdotal experience doesn't entirely match country-level trends. For example, it can be argued that if you're more strongly tied to a job you'll make more effort to improve things rather than just leave.
- greenshackle2 10y ago
  > It's hard to fire people, which is why employers are hesitant to hire (and why the contractor business is so large) Yes that's precisely what I meant. I said employers were reluctant to hire, not that it was hard. Not sure what made you think I disagree with this.

Symbiote 10y ago

The 3 month notice period doesn't make it difficult to dismiss staff. The rules about dismissing staff make it difficult to dismiss staff, and aren't much affected by the notice period.

AceJohnny2 10y ago

I'm a frenchman who left for the US. The 3-month long notice period does indeed sound insane, but it's not the reason it's hard to hire people. In fact, you got cause-and-effect the wrong way around. It's hard to fire people, which is why employers are hesitant to hire (and why the contractor business is so large). So as an employee, you're relatively safe. In return, the employer is relatively safe from an employee up-and-leaving, thanks to the 3-month notice. Of course, the secondary effects are huge: because the hiring market is less fluid, people will stick around bad situations longer, both employees and employers, with expected consequences. I won't detail them here, in case my anecdotal experience doesn't entirely match country-level trends. For example, it can be argued that if you're more strongly tied to a job you'll make more effort to improve things rather than just leave.

greenshackle2 10y ago
> It's hard to fire people, which is why employers are hesitant to hire (and why the contractor business is so large) Yes that's precisely what I meant. I said employers were reluctant to hire, not that it was hard. Not sure what made you think I disagree with this.