6 ms·

>it's still long from being usable. Really? Traveling +300 miles before needing a 3.5 hour recharge still leaves it "long from being usable"?

by drcross 10y ago

TomMarius 10y ago
The range unfortunately isn't that large because of generally colder weather. Charging stations aren't on the way, and not even a quick detour, but a significant change of the way. When I'm going 1200 km to a client (or visit my parents), I don't have the time to go to the charger and charge my car three times, but it's no more than 10-hour trip with a conventionally-powered vehicle.
- mikeash 10y ago
  If the route has Superchargers, your 10-hour trip in a conventional vehicle might be a 12-hour trip in a Tesla. Longer, but not horribly so. It depends on how you drive, too. If your 10-hour trip involves running into the bathroom and eating at the wheel, the penalty will be larger. If you sit down for meals and take breaks anyway, the penalty can be almost zero.
morsch 10y ago
Some people buy don't buy a small car because they might need to haul a sofa around town once a year. Other people don't buy a car with limited range because they might need to drive more than 4 hours without a long break once a year.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thachmai 10y ago
  Statistically, I move every three year so far. I do have a lot of stuff though, last time it took half a shipping container for everything. If I extend your logics for my case, I should be driving a container truck every day. We shouldn't optimize for the exceptional cases. It's far cheaper and easier to think of the main usage first and deal with the exceptions when the time comes. Renting a shipping container once every few years is not that expensive.
  - morsch 10y ago
    I agree with you. I didn't give any logical argument, I just presented how people seem to behave, for better or worse. I don't own a car and when I need one it's usually one of the two scenarios I outline -- in which case I rent one.
- mschaef 10y ago
  > Other people don't buy a car with limited range because they might need to drive more than 4 hours without a long break once a year. This is an easy argument to make, and I've made it myself in other cases, but there are two parts to the equation. The first is how often you might need to travel a long distance, but the second is what the consequence might be if you can't. Personally speaking (this thankfully hasn't happened often) I've had to make literally last minute 12 hour drives to attend to gravely ill relatives. If our only car had been a 300 mile range electric, those drives wouldn't have been possible in anything close to the same duration. (Looking for an alternative/rent car at 11PM isn't really an option. Looking for a Supercharger station in rural Virgina at 3AM even less so.)
  - ambicapter 10y ago
    12 hour drive? Wasn't quicker to grab a plane?
    - mschaef 10y ago
      At least one or two of the calls were quite urgent - We got the call late in the evening and were in the car within an hour or two. Flying would've meant booking a last minute flight, waiting for whatever flight time, getting to the airport an hour or two in advance, landing at our destination, arranging transport, and then taking a two hour trip by ground transport. There was so much in the way of overhead and transition costs it didn't make sense. (Amtrak had the same problem.... we've tried that before too, but only once.)
    - TomMarius 10y ago
      Not possible for me since my car is full of computers usually.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    There's a third part to the equation: how often your trip is one which can't use Superchargers. Most trips can. Coverage is pretty good nowadays. You don't "look for" them, the car tells you where to go. 3AM is irrelevant, they're open 24/7. If your trip is well covered by the network, you're looking at a 10-20% time penalty. If it's not, you're screwed, of course, but people seem to overstate how likely that is.
babyrainbow 10y ago
>Really? Traveling +300 miles before needing a 3.5 hour recharge still leaves it "long from being usable"? Yes. it is a huge step back from what we are used to...
- Retric 10y ago
  Two 40 minute charges add 80% battery life and cover that distance assuming you start from a full charge. 750 miles is likely to take two refills on a gas car which take 5 minutes and you need to locate a station. So, the tech adds 1h 10 minutes over a 10+h trip, it's the infrastructure that's an issue for you. PS: It's not really safe to drive 10h without taking a few breaks. But, I know the appeal.
  - bluGill 10y ago
    They need to add a few more stations. On the 300 mile trip I take most often there is exactly one, and it isn't in the town we normally stop to eat at. (we commonly leave right after work and have supper 2 hours down the road which is a good time for a break). There is no station anywhere any of the hotels I stay at either. In short, the current superchargers are a good start, but if they want to make electric cars work for long distance they need to have them at every restaurant in the country, and every hotel needs to provide a charging station. In most of the country you can find a gas station every 20 miles even in the least populated parts. (though I can name some areas where next gas is 60 miles) Since a fill up is only 5 minutes I can fill up and then go to the restaurant across the street. With fillups taking 40 minutes we need the charging station to have a different model from current gas stations: they need to be places where humans would want to stop for a long time. Parks, hotels, restaurants, museums and the line come to mind. It will be interesting to see what happens as (if) electric cars become common.
    - Retric 10y ago
      Fair enough, my hope is they will add in road charging on highways which removes any real range issues. Electromagnetic induction is expencive and less efficent, but visually more apealing and fewer weather related issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Electric_Vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Electric_Vehicle or various forms of direct connections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduit_current_collection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduit_current_collection However, if electric becomes the norm gas is going to have the same issues as there are ever fewer stations.

>it's still long from being usable. Really? Traveling +300 miles before needing a 3.5 hour recharge still leaves it "long from being usable"?

by drcross 10y ago

>it's still long from being usable. Really? Traveling +300 miles before needing a 3.5 hour recharge still leaves it "long from being usable"?

TomMarius 10y ago

The range unfortunately isn't that large because of generally colder weather. Charging stations aren't on the way, and not even a quick detour, but a significant change of the way. When I'm going 1200 km to a client (or visit my parents), I don't have the time to go to the charger and charge my car three times, but it's no more than 10-hour trip with a conventionally-powered vehicle.

mikeash 10y ago
If the route has Superchargers, your 10-hour trip in a conventional vehicle might be a 12-hour trip in a Tesla. Longer, but not horribly so. It depends on how you drive, too. If your 10-hour trip involves running into the bathroom and eating at the wheel, the penalty will be larger. If you sit down for meals and take breaks anyway, the penalty can be almost zero.

morsch 10y ago

Some people buy don't buy a small car because they might need to haul a sofa around town once a year. Other people don't buy a car with limited range because they might need to drive more than 4 hours without a long break once a year.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
thachmai 10y ago
Statistically, I move every three year so far. I do have a lot of stuff though, last time it took half a shipping container for everything. If I extend your logics for my case, I should be driving a container truck every day. We shouldn't optimize for the exceptional cases. It's far cheaper and easier to think of the main usage first and deal with the exceptions when the time comes. Renting a shipping container once every few years is not that expensive.
- morsch 10y ago
  I agree with you. I didn't give any logical argument, I just presented how people seem to behave, for better or worse. I don't own a car and when I need one it's usually one of the two scenarios I outline -- in which case I rent one.
mschaef 10y ago
> Other people don't buy a car with limited range because they might need to drive more than 4 hours without a long break once a year. This is an easy argument to make, and I've made it myself in other cases, but there are two parts to the equation. The first is how often you might need to travel a long distance, but the second is what the consequence might be if you can't. Personally speaking (this thankfully hasn't happened often) I've had to make literally last minute 12 hour drives to attend to gravely ill relatives. If our only car had been a 300 mile range electric, those drives wouldn't have been possible in anything close to the same duration. (Looking for an alternative/rent car at 11PM isn't really an option. Looking for a Supercharger station in rural Virgina at 3AM even less so.)
- ambicapter 10y ago
  12 hour drive? Wasn't quicker to grab a plane?
  - mschaef 10y ago
    At least one or two of the calls were quite urgent - We got the call late in the evening and were in the car within an hour or two. Flying would've meant booking a last minute flight, waiting for whatever flight time, getting to the airport an hour or two in advance, landing at our destination, arranging transport, and then taking a two hour trip by ground transport. There was so much in the way of overhead and transition costs it didn't make sense. (Amtrak had the same problem.... we've tried that before too, but only once.)
  - TomMarius 10y ago
    Not possible for me since my car is full of computers usually.
- mikeash 10y ago
  There's a third part to the equation: how often your trip is one which can't use Superchargers. Most trips can. Coverage is pretty good nowadays. You don't "look for" them, the car tells you where to go. 3AM is irrelevant, they're open 24/7. If your trip is well covered by the network, you're looking at a 10-20% time penalty. If it's not, you're screwed, of course, but people seem to overstate how likely that is.

babyrainbow 10y ago

>Really? Traveling +300 miles before needing a 3.5 hour recharge still leaves it "long from being usable"? Yes. it is a huge step back from what we are used to...

Retric 10y ago
Two 40 minute charges add 80% battery life and cover that distance assuming you start from a full charge. 750 miles is likely to take two refills on a gas car which take 5 minutes and you need to locate a station. So, the tech adds 1h 10 minutes over a 10+h trip, it's the infrastructure that's an issue for you. PS: It's not really safe to drive 10h without taking a few breaks. But, I know the appeal.
- bluGill 10y ago
  They need to add a few more stations. On the 300 mile trip I take most often there is exactly one, and it isn't in the town we normally stop to eat at. (we commonly leave right after work and have supper 2 hours down the road which is a good time for a break). There is no station anywhere any of the hotels I stay at either. In short, the current superchargers are a good start, but if they want to make electric cars work for long distance they need to have them at every restaurant in the country, and every hotel needs to provide a charging station. In most of the country you can find a gas station every 20 miles even in the least populated parts. (though I can name some areas where next gas is 60 miles) Since a fill up is only 5 minutes I can fill up and then go to the restaurant across the street. With fillups taking 40 minutes we need the charging station to have a different model from current gas stations: they need to be places where humans would want to stop for a long time. Parks, hotels, restaurants, museums and the line come to mind. It will be interesting to see what happens as (if) electric cars become common.
  - Retric 10y ago
    Fair enough, my hope is they will add in road charging on highways which removes any real range issues. Electromagnetic induction is expencive and less efficent, but visually more apealing and fewer weather related issues. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Electric_Vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Electric_Vehicle or various forms of direct connections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supply or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduit_current_collection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduit_current_collection However, if electric becomes the norm gas is going to have the same issues as there are ever fewer stations.