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A new trend? You think Trump is inventing Whitehouse lies, right before our eyes? Politicians have a looooong history of lying, big lies that get peole killed

A new trend? You think Trump is inventing Whitehouse lies, right before our eyes? Politicians have a looooong history of lying, big lies that get peole killed ("Iraq WMDs are a slam dunk!") . Where have you been?

celticninja 10y ago
Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. This is different because not only did they lie about something that could be checked but the continued to lie even after being called out on it. Further the president repeated the lie and continues to repeat the lie. O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies.
- danbruc 10y ago
  Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. But there was serious doubt even if it did not constitute a clear proof. And doesn't this actually make matters worse? An obvious lie about something without much if any consequences versus a somewhat convincing lie about something that affected the lives of millions? To me the former one seems more like a stupid thing to do, the later one seems ruthless, evil or what ever you want to call it.
- koolba 10y ago
  > O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies. You can use the Obama birth certificate turn around as counter point and that was definitely less than 10 years.
  - forgetsusername 10y ago
    Right. That and the birth certificate thing wasn't a "lie", it was ignorant, dog whistle politicking. Telling people you are going to strengthen whistle blowing laws to empower workers, then prosecuting a record number of people under the Espionage act is closer to a damaging lie.
  - flippyhead 10y ago
    No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it.
    - koolba 10y ago
      > No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it. President Obama is on video, audio, Twitter, and just about every other form of media saying things that subsequently were proven false. A brazen example of that is the infamous line, "If you like your plan you can keep your plan." which he knew to be false (and Ezekiel Emanuel, architect of much of the ACA had apparently laughed at as impossible). I don't mean to single out President Obama as it's really all Presidents, or more generally politicians, that do it. It's not unique to Trump, didn't start with him, nor will it end with him.
      - kbenson 10y ago
        All politicians lie, what's seemingly different about Trump is the scope and frequency of those lies, and his refusal to admit he even said them given evidence. Just the refusal to admit them would be bad enough, but since he's gotten away with it just about every time, it shows a worrying trend of there being no accountability. Combined with the frequency, the problem is just multiplied. I find a politician that can't seem to be held accountable for his actions and that trades on this for more political power very troubling.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  So it's more acceptable for politicians to admit to their lies at a later date, that to stick to them? Hmm...
  - celticninja 10y ago
    Is that what I said?
- rbanffy 10y ago
  > if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies. I bet good money he'll be saying billions of people watched his inauguration by then.
- fpina 10y ago
  Why Trump's Staff Is Lying (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump-s-staff-is-lying https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump...)
kbenson 10y ago
I choose my words carefully. I even emphasized specific words to attempt to make my point more clear. Then you ignored all that. I wasn't trying to imply that the White House could be trusted in all things, but that there was some level of truth you could probably assume, especially about things that were already known or weren't worth lying about. What we have now is an example of disputing obvious facts, and over something inconsequential, as issues the White House responds to about go. This is clearly different than what we could expect before, even if we couldn't always expect for an entirely honest answer before.

celticninja 10y ago

Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. This is different because not only did they lie about something that could be checked but the continued to lie even after being called out on it. Further the president repeated the lie and continues to repeat the lie. O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies.

danbruc 10y ago
Those lies were not immediately able to be proven wrong. But there was serious doubt even if it did not constitute a clear proof. And doesn't this actually make matters worse? An obvious lie about something without much if any consequences versus a somewhat convincing lie about something that affected the lives of millions? To me the former one seems more like a stupid thing to do, the later one seems ruthless, evil or what ever you want to call it.
koolba 10y ago
> O bet both George W. Bush and Tony Blair would agree that there were no WMDs in Iraq if you asked them today, if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies. You can use the Obama birth certificate turn around as counter point and that was definitely less than 10 years.
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  Right. That and the birth certificate thing wasn't a "lie", it was ignorant, dog whistle politicking. Telling people you are going to strengthen whistle blowing laws to empower workers, then prosecuting a record number of people under the Espionage act is closer to a damaging lie.
- flippyhead 10y ago
  No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it.
  - koolba 10y ago
    > No, I don't think you can since it's entirely possible Trump will simply declare he never backtracked and that he still has doubts or evidence Obama wasn't legitimate. He's repeatedly denied saying things _he is on video or twitter_ saying. He can simply make up any facts whenever he wants because no matter the evidence to the contrary, what he says is true simply because he's said it. President Obama is on video, audio, Twitter, and just about every other form of media saying things that subsequently were proven false. A brazen example of that is the infamous line, "If you like your plan you can keep your plan." which he knew to be false (and Ezekiel Emanuel, architect of much of the ACA had apparently laughed at as impossible). I don't mean to single out President Obama as it's really all Presidents, or more generally politicians, that do it. It's not unique to Trump, didn't start with him, nor will it end with him.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      All politicians lie, what's seemingly different about Trump is the scope and frequency of those lies, and his refusal to admit he even said them given evidence. Just the refusal to admit them would be bad enough, but since he's gotten away with it just about every time, it shows a worrying trend of there being no accountability. Combined with the frequency, the problem is just multiplied. I find a politician that can't seem to be held accountable for his actions and that trades on this for more political power very troubling.
forgetsusername 10y ago
So it's more acceptable for politicians to admit to their lies at a later date, that to stick to them? Hmm...
- celticninja 10y ago
  Is that what I said?
rbanffy 10y ago
> if you also Trump, today or in 10 years, about the turnout for his inauguration he would repeat the same lies. I bet good money he'll be saying billions of people watched his inauguration by then.
fpina 10y ago
Why Trump's Staff Is Lying (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump-s-staff-is-lying https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-23/why-trump...)

kbenson 10y ago

I choose my words carefully. I even emphasized specific words to attempt to make my point more clear. Then you ignored all that. I wasn't trying to imply that the White House could be trusted in all things, but that there was some level of truth you could probably assume, especially about things that were already known or weren't worth lying about. What we have now is an example of disputing obvious facts, and over something inconsequential, as issues the White House responds to about go. This is clearly different than what we could expect before, even if we couldn't always expect for an entirely honest answer before.